Ecclesiasticus 3:4, 17, are a couple of verses that help us understand.

"He that loveth God, shall obtain pardon for his sins by prayer, and shall refrain himself from them, and shall be heard in the prayer of days."

17, "and in justice thou shalt be built up, and in the day of affliction thou shalt be remembered, and thy sins shall melt away as the ice in the fair warm weather."

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I have offered many evidences of proof of God, (reason, causality, a law dictated by our voice of conscience, the complexity of nature itself. but you are stubborn.

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The four last things for everyone of us are death, judgment, heaven or hell. Christ told us He will judge all mankind. We are made up of a spiritual and immortal soul and a corruptible body. It's not about what we will "see", but every person will undergo judgment after his death. Hebrews 9:27. 

The soul is created by God at the moment of conception. Death will give freedom to the soul emancipating it from the chains of mere matter. Then the soul will immediately be conscious of itself and of other beings invisible to us now. The soul will be conscious of all spiritual biengs and above all of God. After death has released the soul from the body, the soul will come into immediate contact with God, provided it has deserved to do so. God is meant to be the terminus of the soul's journey, so that life will carry us back to our Source and the Source of all life.

  Serious and unrepentent sin can alone hinder its doing so, the result then being the disastrous wreckage in eternal Hell.

Spoken like an atheist.

Science will never free man from the necessity to die and he will never succeed in prolonging it indefinitely. However, the Church fully stands behind scientific means that man may do their best to prolong life against the ravages of disease. Medical science and supernatural faith is the best way of healing. 

Ya, let's get real. It's because Death, God, Judgment, Heaven and Hell are real that we are having this discussion. 

God is Wise. He made man the highest form of creation and endowed him with reason. Man alone can know his Maker. And as love follows the knowedge of what is good, man can love his Maker. It would be an insult to the Infinite Wisdom of God to suggest that He made mankind to live but a few years and then to end like a termite, a tree or a dog.

And God is not only Wise, He is Just. Justice demands that there be a God. If there is no future life, what of justice? Good and evil are not balanced in this life. Good people often suffer and the evil ones often do well. In fact, if there is no future life, there is no true morality, for there is no sufficient sanction. Rob, lie, murder...only be careful in doing so.

There is but one truth. If there be immortality we can understand God reserving the full manifestation of justice for the next life. But if there be no immortality, then there is no God at all. And for those who believe there is no immortality, the proofs should be pretty strong. But what proofs are there? There are none.

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Lula, if you could prove your God exists then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion? This view is not exclusively mine as you well know. Proof has little to do with reason, casualty, a voice of conscience or the complexities of Nature I am afraid. I do not have a stubborn bone in my body I just require actual proof to sway my stubborn mind, hahaha. Until we get past this sore point, I am afraid all your mystical quotes are … well meaningless. If you cannot prove the book is about something real … then it is a fiction.

I suppose this nonsense is actually written down somewhere … some unimpeachable source right? Are you sure you haven't been talking to Elvis? I can show you a clip of a sperm cell impregnating an egg in a glass dish producing a human fetus (or just about any other fetus) … at what point does God implant this sole of yours? Remember we are still working on part 1 above too? Lula, you use a lot of words but you do not say much.

Coming to faith in God really is not about proof.  I could show you evidence after evidences but until the spirit of God opens eyes, it can't happen.  Look at the miracles Christ did, thousands of them, yet they still crucified him.  They acknowledged that he did the miracles (never was a question) and that he was unlike any other, but in the end it was their own selfish desires that won out sending Him to the cross.  They wanted to believe what they wanted to believe.   They wanted life to go on as before He showed up. He messed up their agenda which in effect amounts to their desiring to be their own god. 

That's really what is's all about in the end.  Doing it God's way or your way. 

Jesus said "believing is seeing."  Until one comes to faith, he cannot "see."  It takes belief to see and that belief can only come from one source.  Not from ourselves, it is the gift of God. 

 

 

Proof or evidence of God's existence has been offered time and time again. By proof, no one of course, means God's existence is capable of being verified by experimental science.  So, if experimental science is what you'll only accept then your statement is correct.

But by proof or evidence, men are endowed with reason and can appreciate intellectual evidence.

By reason, proof or evidence of God can be in the simple declaration that the existence of the creation, man included, presupposes the existence of a Creator, whom we call God. Nothing in the world came into existence by itself. Motion came from a Mover. Design from a Designer, and life from Life. Even children understand "causality", that something cannot come from nothing. Every effect must be due to a power or agent that caused it.  The proof from design whether dealing with a watch or the cosmos and everything that's in it including plant, animal and human life is simple and irrefutable. A watch needs a watch-maker and the cosmos and life needs a Designer, a First Cause who always was. is and will be. 

Another proof is the existence of law which evidences the existence of a Law-Maker. The Moral or Natural Law written in our heart enjoins us to do or not to do certain things. We have free will which is the power to reckon correctly or incorrectly and an inner voice of conscience which tells us to do what we know to be right from wrong.  

Atheists are a stubborn bunch and for different reasons they prefer to enslave themselves to the dreary gospel of unbelief.

 

 

The Book IS about something real..from Genesis to the Apocalypse, it's about Salvation history. The Book is about Someone Real...namely, God Incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ.

And even stubborn you knows what history is but what about God Incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ's plan of Salvation History?

Catholics believe that salvation is a gift of God, eternal freedom of the soul from the bond of sin. Salvation is the attainment of everlasting union with God. Salvation means the rescue of the eternal soul from sin, from the wrath of God, eternal punishment.

Catholics believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ by His Atonement freed man from the bond of sin. He wants all to be saved, but not against their will.

Catholics believe that Christ instituted the means by which man may be super-naturalized where he'll pass to citizenship in the Eternal kingdom of God. However, Christ demands payment for personal salvation. His price is the one true Faith, expressed in good works.

 

BT,

Re: the highlighted...it's soul! Ha, ha, ha.

Anyway, Genesis 2:7 gives us a glimpse to the answer of your question.

"ANd the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth; and breathed into his face the breath of life. and man became a living soul."

Catholic theology explains that passage as follows.

Just as God Himself formed Adam, He also forms the human fetus (body) once the sperm cell impregnates the egg. The human fetus becomes a living being when God breathes a soul into it.  The soul is the cause of the body's life and without it the body cannot live. When the soul is separated from the body, the body dies. 

 

 

I agree. Well said.

However, you are jumping ahead here!

I agree, but we aren't discussing coming to Faith in God.

Atheists do not believe in the existence of God.

There are proofs or evidences for God's existence apart from the Bible and apart from the supernatural virtue of Divine Faith.

People can fully believe in the existence of God, yet have no Divine Faith in Him; or love or want to obey Him.

 

Lula, it is disheartening at best to consider we came from the slime of the Earth … and you prefer this to apes? Apes are fine majestic creatures and I have no problem having them for ancestors … the slime of the Earth huh. “Coming to faith in God really is not about proof.” Well then what is it about? How about the truth for starters? Do you understand what the word “truth’ means; in all respects but one, it means that things correspond to fact or reality. Then the Church stepped in and redefined the term for us to mean only one thing … God. Screw the science, math, physics, archeology, linguistics, actual common sense, true reason and screw above all things actual knowledge because it is the one thing mysticism cannot conquer.  

Lula, are you trying to tell me that the sperm cell and the egg are discussed in your book of books too? At what point in the petri dish does God intervene to implant its soul? “People can fully believe in the existence of God, yet have no Divine Faith in Him; or love or want to obey Him.” You are joking again right? And how does this all come about? How does this fit into your Godly pursuits and saving souls? We both know the RCC would hate these ‘people’ just as they profess to hate me. For you RCC religious folk, I am afraid it is the whole shebang or nothing. Why would I be interested in what Catholics “believe” you have repeatedly told me it is all based in mysticism (faith) and you know how well that stuff impresses me?

This is why we cannot communicate: “Catholics believe that salvation is a gift of God, eternal freedom of the soul from the bond of sin. Salvation is the attainment of everlasting union with God. Salvation means the rescue of the eternal soul from sin, from the wrath of God, eternal punishment.” The only things worth talking about in this sentence are the words not underlined … the rest is mysticism without the least bit of proof.

Then, it should comfort you to know that only our physical body came from "the slime of the earth". Is it just as disheartening to know that at our death our physical body will return to the slime of the earth, that is, to dust? Genesis 3:19, "...for dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return". 

But really, none of this is disheartening because we are made in the image and likeness of Almighty God. Man is made up of a physical body and a spiritual soul. The likeness of man to God consists in that man has a spiritual soul which not only makes his physical body live, but is also immortal, reasonable (intellect), and gifted with free will. By these 3 qualities it is in a measure like unto God, Who is Eternal, whose intelligence is Supreme and whose will is Infinite.

So while our natural body is frail, subject to sickness and death, becasue it is made from the earth and like every other earthly thing, is perishable, our soul is a spiritual substance directly created by God. Our soul is the life-giving principle of the body. 

 

No Lula, it is no comfort at all. If I had a soul I would know it just like any other cancer in my body. All I have is this old rundown body of mine and I much prefer to be related to a monkey thank you very much. You are right though ... none of the rest is disheartening to me for my own reasons of course, not yours.

 

 

Yes, like it or not, believe it or not, man is a composite being consisting of body and soul and the soul is the nobler component taboot.  

You are alive ....that's how you know you have a soul.  A living human body is not the same as a corpse. The soul is the difference between a corpse and a living body. A dead body falls to pieces and goes back to dust, but there is something that stops the body from doing that now. It's your SOUL.

You know that for every activity you must find a principle of operation behind it. The principle in man which thinks and loves, is happy or miserable is a very real thing. Pardon the grammatical double negatives, but it's not nothing, less than the very body it animates. Nor is it a chemical. No doctor examining a corpse, can tell you what chemical is missing that it should not live.

If there be nothing else save chemical substances, let doctors and scientists gather together the requisite chemicals and say, "Live". Try as they will, they can effect nothing like this. There is something that chemistry cannot reach; it is the SOUL, sometimes called spirit.    

 

Lula, my dog is alive and well and though we are soul mates hahaha ... he doesn't really have a soul either. You want to talk principles … I do not need to find the answers to all the mysteries of the universe … all I feel obligated to do is just look for what answers my understanding and personal knowledge can uncover and comprehend. Why would anyone try to “create life” in some mystical manor when we all know how this is done. Worked for my dog … and it worked for me … PROOF of the constitution of all animals. We (I) know why the body stops functioning and it is elementary indeed … right? Or is medicine one of the fields of religion that cannot be believed because it actually requires that nasty snake oil thing called ‘knowledge’ to propagate its lies and deceits against the RCC, hahaha.

Yes, your dog has a soul...it's just not immortal and rational as yours is. When your pooch dies it's dust and no more. 

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There certainly are no definitive answers (facts) for believing you "evolved" from an ape.   You are big on proofs for belief, but evidently not in this case since try as they have, evolutionists have no scientific proofs of evolutionary apes-to-mankind. The missing link between the two is still missing.  Evolutionary apes-to-mankind is pseudo science. 

Reason discredits Godless evolution.

Since Godless evolution from nothing is absurd, I know with certainty I did not evolve from an ape.  I was specially created by God, and you were too. 

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Back to truth? Yes, let's go there. 

Divine Faith (aka true Religion), truth and true science. How are they connected?

You ask, Do I understand the word "truth". 

Yes I do. 

No proven scientific conclusion will ever necessitate the rejection of a single word of Scripture or Tradition (the infallible teachings of the CC). That's because truth can never contradict truth. 

God revealed true Religion (Catholicism) and science call for belief by both faith and study. Faith proceeds all study. religion begins with Divine Faith, that will not in fact decieve; whereas science begins with human faith that is fallible.

It's utterly impossible to study math, physics, archeology, linguistics, etc. as well as Religion, without accepting first principles upon faith, without faith in teachers.

Science, like Religion, begins with mysteries, truths that are not and ever will be fully understood. Electricity is an example. There are natural mysteries about electricity, yet their manifestations prove their existence.  Same thing with Religion and proof of God, 

"The heavens show forth the glory of God and the firmament declares the works of His hands." Psalm 18:1. 

A teacher said: "Science is knowing how God works in the natural order. Divine Faith is knowing how God works in the supernatural order."

If faith were intellectually in conflict with science,the great Catholic scientists could not have consistently proclaimed themselves to be Catholics in faith and practice. They found that faith teaches things so profound they are above reason. Also that faith in both true religion and true science does not teach anything opposed to reason or to those sound principles necessary to reason rightly. 

(getting personal) With all due respect, you fail to understand what faith really is and its basic role in the sphere of true science as well as true religion. 

Faith is not emotional, blind submission to the unknowable. Rather Faith is an intellectual assent of the mind to something not seen with the physical eye; the acceptance of a truth upon the authority of someone else. In true religion, it is Divine Authority (teachers, first taking Christ at His word to His Apostles..to their successors bishops in Christ's Church).

In science, it is dependence upon human authority that may or may not be right.

When faith of science is accepted, and not the faith of true religion, it's wise to recall what St.John said, 

"If we accept the testimony of man, the testimony of God is greater." 

 

Simply stated, they aren’t connected at all. Why is this so difficult for you? Science is based on facts as best we know and understand them ... and religion is based on faith and belief, not on science at all. Why is that you say; Well, there was no such thing as science or education for that matter back when your books were being compiled from folk lore (you like to call them traditions but a rose by any other name...). So the complications science has brought to the table couldn’t have possibly been in the minds of people of that time (just like the egg and the sperm) and therefore cannot be represented in the bible and therefore cannot be used to argue against science.  If our science is bad, then why is it utilized all around the world by everyone (AFAIK)? And if it is used by all, how could it be bad? Why it is that only the science that can be used to discredit religious dogma is the only bad science we have? Yes Lula I know, the devil invented science so we could destroy the RCC, hahaha. All you know Lula is what other people have taught you to believe because you have no firsthand knowledge whatsoever so everything you tell me is actually coming from someone else.

 

They are not.

Science tries to find explanations that work for observed facts and can be used to predict new facts. The explanations don't have to be true or even very correct to be useful.

Religion tries to find the absolute truth and its explanation is so complete and ready for anything that it cannot predict anything at all.

The two solve very different problems (lifestyle vs engineering) and shouldn't be confused.

Nobody should design a nuclear power plant based on the belief that G-d is good and protects us if we pray enough and nobody should make a decision about life and death based on the weight of a Uranium atom.