and do you actually believe Catholics adhere to this?

Let me tell you the point of your RCC Catechism.  The whole point is to get people to come to church to collect their money.

That's it.  

What you wrote above with your 2191, 2192, 2193 is exactly what the Pharisees said to Christ all thru the gospels.  

Remember he healed on the Sabbath?  Remember their reactions?  

He violated their traditions especially his lawbreaking on their Sabbath.  Yes, he was the Lord of the Sabbath and they killed him because he didn't adhere to their tradition.  

KFC I love you ... this is it in a nutshell and it couldn't have been said better, hahaha. The RCC is what drove me away from religion in the first place. If hundreds of millions of people were going to pretend there was merit in CCC, well there could be no God after all ... and that eventually caused me to start thinking and studying. Anyway, I am going to gladly let you try to straighten Lula out, hehehe.

 

Only the Holy Spirit can work on Lula.  I'm just a messenger.  I've been talking to Lula for years.  She only wants the RCC's truth.  She can't disengage her belief/faith in her church from what the Word of God says.  When she sticks with just scripture we get along fine, but she goes time and time again to her RCC commentaries that are leading her away, not closer to the truth.  

I think the RCC has done a ton of damage thru the years and there's a lot of walking wounded.  I've met hundreds if not thousands of Catholics over the years who have left the CC and were so disgusted with religion they want nothing to do with it.  Satan must be laughing his tail off.  His MO is to do anything he can to distort the truth to get people so confused they throw their hands in the air in despair.  I've had to do so much damage control over the years trying to show them the differences between man-made religion and all their trappings and the Word of God.  Most of the time I get a slammed door (so to speak) in my face.  They close right up.  They want nothing to do with religion after having their fill from their RCC upbringing.   Quite often these religions (there are others) are singing their own song, totally tuning out what God says.  That's what the whole point of the seven letters to the seven churches in the first part of Revelation were all about.  Who will remain faithful to the Word of God?  

Out of the seven addressed churches, only two remained faithful to God.  The rest went down their own street without looking up. The blind leading the blind.  

 

 

The Bible records the abrogation of the Old Covenant Mosaic laws in the "vision" of St.Peter Acts 10, in Col. 2:16 and Gal. 4:10-11, (as you have mentioned) as well as in the Council of Jerusalem Acts 15 which took place 20 years after the Apostles had changed the Jewish sabbath to Sunday and had been keeping holy "the first day of the week", "The Lord's Day". 

The NT pays special honor to Sunday although the actual word "Sunday" is not there. In 33AD, Christ rose on Sunday, and He appeared to His Apostles on Sunday. He chose the following Sunday to appear to them when St. Thomas was present. Fifty days later, Christ chose Sunday for the bestowal of the Holy Spirit upon His Church. Pentecost Sunday Acts 2. St.Peter, standing with the 11, preached Christ to the multitudes v. 41-42, "So those who received his word were baptized and there were added about 3,000 souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the Apostles teaching and fellowship to the breaking of bread and prayers."   

"The breaking of the bread" was the special way the early Christians referred to making and distrubiting the sacrament containing the Lord's Body. (St.John 6 + St.Matt.26:26 which we've discussed many times).

So "keeping the Lord's Day" had been going on from 33AD, KFC, from Pentecost onwards, the prayers, the eucharistic communion on the first day of the week form the center of Christian worship. So the first Christians themselves observed Sunday from the very beginning. Acts 20:7, "on the first day of the week when we assembled to break bread.."

The thing is that Sunday observances supplemented rather than supplanted Saturday observance of the Sabbath during the first days of the Church. That's due to nearly all the Christians being converts from Judaism. 

When the Gentile converts came into the Chruch, communal life between them and the Jewish Christians was difficult. And that's where Romans 14 and Galations comes in.

Some of the Jewish converts continued to keep those Jewish observances including maintaining their observance of the 7th day Sabbath laws and this is probably the context of St.Paul's admonition in Romans 14:1-5 and Galatians.

This went on for a while but then there was even more difficulty that arose.

The Jewish Christians had a high regard for the ceremonies of the Old Law and it caused them to go so far as to hold, for a time, that the Gentile Christians should be circumcised, insisting that they had to become Jews before they could become Christians.  A vigorous controvery ensued and the issue was finally presented to the Apostles and other leaders, and the Council of Jerusalem was convened in 50AD.

Back to your quote of Acts 15,

 

The finally decree from the Council of Jerusalem is listed 3 times in Acts. Fully in vs. 19-20 and 28-29 and partially in vs. 21, 25.

The first and all important point of the decree was the freedom of Gentile Christians from the Old Law. V. 28, the formula, "For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no burden upon you than these necessary things:" states the Apostles conviction that important Church decisons (that would later be called ex cathedra) were assisted by the Holy Ghost, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Verse 28 is the dogmatic part which infallibly declares that converts are free of the obligation of circumcision and of the Mosaic law but are subject to the Gospel's perennial moral teachngs on matters to do with chastity. These parts are permanent becasue it has to do with a necessary part of God's salvific will it cannot change. 

V. 29 is part disciplinary and can at some time later be changed.   

"that you abstain (fast--don't eat) from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, .."

The second element in the decree was intended to make the communal life of the Judaic and Gentile Christians less difficult and establish a bridge between them. It asks Christians of Gentile background, out of charity towards Jewish Christians,  to abstain, that is, to fast, go without eating, from the animals that have been sacrifice to idols, and from blood and from meat of animals killed by strangulation. 

So it was the Council of Jerusalem, followed by the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, which ended the priestly sacrificial services of the Jews that caused the line of demarcation between the Jewish and Christian 7th day Sabbath, which we can see was blurred for a time, to be so clearly defined, and universally accepted. 

 

I know KFC and I appreciate your difficulty as I have been in this quagmire for quite some time myself. I also want to apologize if some of my own frustrations against the RCCC bled over to you and your actual Religious practices. I don’t really care that much anymore how people spend their time and resources as long as I am granted mine … as I see fit. I see no path for me to reconsider a religious calling at this late stage of my life. I was never able to separate RCCC from Religion itself as all I knew was Catholicism and was told that was it, period. So I advanced my knowledge through the efforts of man and well, I came to the conclusion that I did (even if for the wrong reasons). Why, because I cannot find any reasonable way to un-knowledge myself to start believing in magic again. I can see it though … The RCC was founded by your devil to thin the real troops out … if it were just that simple. 

 [/quote]

WHAT IS ALL THIS?

Are you giving me a bible history lesson?  Didn't I say some of this myself?  Why don't you just answer the question?  It was plain and simple.  

I asked...

you give me this long essay that doesn't have anything to do with my question. 

It's quite clear in the NT that there are commands not to murder, not to commit adultery, to not covet, to love God and love your neighbor..but there's NOTHING; not one command in the NT to worship or keep any certain day holy.  

You have yet to show me anything in spite of your many words.  You're trying to twist and turn and it's hard isn't it?  If you go by your church, it's clear.  They have mandated Sunday as a command but the bible does no such thing.  

So in all reality, you are following man, not God which is what I've been saying all along.  Psalm 118:8

It's never too late.  Look at the story of Abraham, having a child at 100 years of age or his wife at 90.  Look at Zechariah, who said "how can this be, I'm an old man?"  when he was told he would father John the Baptist.  Moses was 80 when his ministry began.  Noah was pretty old when he started building that boat.  

God is no respecter of time.  God's ways are not our ways.  He chooses those we would have cast aside.  Jesus said to keep working while it is day, because soon the night will come and you will not be able to work.  So keep on, keeping on until he takes that last breath of yours away.  

 

 

 

 

 

It is that simple.  We tend to make things difficult.  It all comes down to spiritual warfare.  We are in a battle.  We have to fight and not get weary.  Satan is a trickster and will do anything to take us out.  I actually blogged on this myself sometime back using the letter from Jude as text.  Have you ever read any of Frank Peretti's books?  The two I'm thinking mostly of are "This Present Darkness" and "Piercing the Darkness."   Pretty interesting take, he has, on what's going on all around us in the unseen world.  These fictional accounts are pretty interesting and hard to put down once started.  He bases his novels on scripture.  

I also wrote this which has been revived thanks to Lula..  https://forums.joeuser.com/337310

I'm having a problem posting from the last page.

I noticed a change in the format of BT's #260 comment and the last three posts.

I've asked JU to check it out.

 

It was my way of helping you fill in the blanks...to get the full meaning of Scripture which clearly shows that Christians are to keep the New Covenant Sabbath, the Lord's Day HOLY.

But it's plain to see you're not interested to dig deeper into Scripture if it's from the CC's pov.

Nevertheless, I'll press onward and try to answer your question.  

 

 

 

exactly.  That's my point.  

thank you.  I'll look forward to hearing this.  

 

first off there are NO blanks.  It's quite clear using Romans and Colossians which I gave you that show clearly that we are NOT commanded to keep any certain day holy.  Everyday is holy.  What you showed me was history and their habit of meeting on a certain day.  Nothing wrong with that and it did set a precedent but that was for sake of coming together.  But if we choose Tuesday or Thursday that would be fine also.  Sunday makes sense because it's the day of the Resurrection but again, it's not a command and like Paul said "I'm afraid for you" because they were going back into bondage with their legalism.  It's like men seem more comfortable being tied than being free.  

 

I posted:

Scripture shows the Apostles and the first Christians in the early Church kept holy the Lord's Day.

 The "first day of the week" is there and the first day of the week is Sunday, "the Lord's Day". That's there too. "

Acts 20:7 ,"And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them...." 1Cor. 16:1-2, "now concerning the collections that are made for the saints; as I given order to the churches of Galatia, so you (the church of Jerusalem) are also to do: 2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside, and store it up that he might prosper, so that the contributions need not be made when I come." The Apoc. 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.." It happened that the Spirit of God came over St. John to make him a prophetic Seer and a preacher of the word of God, which Jesus wanted to communicate to His Church on the Lord's Day!

On a Sunday, the first day of the week, the day of Jesus' Resurrection, with the Eucharistic "Breaking of Bread" has already replaced the Jewish Sabbath (Acts. 20:7, 1Cor. 16:2).

"The Lord's Day", the day which the Chruch, ever since the Apostolic age, keeps as its holy day in place of the Jewish sabbath, because it is the day on which Jesus rose from the dead. The Resurrection made Sunday, the first day of the week, the Lord's Day, holy to believers.

Christ founded His Church which is the CC and the Church, as can be clearly seen from the Apostles, commands us to keep Sunday as the Lord's Day because Sunday Christ rose from the dead and on SUnday the Holy Ghost decended upon His Church.

In the OT, we read that God gave us the Ten Commandments and some other commands (laws)as well. In the Old Covenant laws, the celebration of a definite day, the Sabbath, had been ordered especially for the Jews, just as circumcision and bloody sacrifices had been. These  OLd Covenant laws were abrogated  upon the institution of the New Covenant.

In the OC, the Jews kept holy the the 7th day of the week, Saturday, The vital principle of the Thrid Commandment was not the specific day, but that one day out of the 7 should be devoted to the worship of God the Creator.  

In the New Covenant Christ delegated His authority to the Church, His Living Voice. You may not read Scripture and bleive it this way, but that's what is. Just as it remained for the Jewish priesthood to determine their Sabbath, it remained then for the Church of which the Apostles were the Magisterium, to indicate the day.

Scripture attests the Apostles DID just that. The Chruch at the time of the Apostles observed the first day of the week, Sunday, in honor of the Resurrection and Pentecost. In the same way the Apostles in the early Church caused circumcision and bloody sacrifices to make way for Baptism and the Sacrifice of the Mass.

In the New Covenant, just as the Apostle's had done, Catholics keep Holy the first day of the week, Sunday. It's called the Lord's Day. St.Paul refers twice to its observance. Acts 20:7 and 1Cor. 16:2.

 

 

 

 

But we must take the whole of Scripture to understand what the Apostles did as far as changing the Sabbath Day to Sunday.

Meeting on a certain day to do what KFC? Other parts of Scripture answer that. Find them and  and you'll understand that what I've been saying is true. Christians are to follow the commandments of GOd and keep holy the Lord's Day.

Google the Protestant and Catholic 10 commandments. They are numbered differently but it's there.

Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods but me.
2. You shall not make unto you any graven images
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your mother and father
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

 

Abbreviated Catholic Ten Commandments:

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

 

You are a true Protestant...still following the Protesting tradition...you PROTEST everything Catholic.

of course..but you are not doing that.  You're ignoring what I wrote and substituting it with what fits your RCC agenda.  The scriptures you use only show their habit of meeting on Sunday.  That's fine but it's still not a command.  The scriptures I gave you more clearly address the issue we're discussing.  You're trying to make something fit that doesn't.  

but you can't seem to show me where this is in the NT.  You are going to the OT which is the Old Covenant.  We are NOT under the law anymore. The keeping of the Sabbath was part of the OT law.  Christ is our rest.  The Sabbath Rest is in Him.  We are under grace.  We've been set free from the law.  Paul writes much about this subject especially in Galatians and Romans but elsewhere as well.  

You're trying to put us back under the law which is what the Judiazers were doing.  The Religious leaders of Paul's day were doing exactly what your RCC is doing now.  

"if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law"  Gal 3:21

"by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight.  Rom 3:20

 

oh and the reason for the difference in the RCC and Protestant versions of the 10 commandments is the fact that the RCC makes a business out of graven images. So of course they don't want to include that in their version of the 10 commandments (even tho we're not under the law anymore)  But if you read scripture you can see that it's there.  It's exactly the same thing as in Acts when Paul was preaching and he was disrupting the business of those who were making graven images to Diana.  They threw him out and persecuted him because he was preaching against any gods but the true God.