Mortalkhrist,

Yes, we agree, the criminal (whom Catholics know as Dismas, the penitent Thief) who was crucified alongside Christ is in Heaven.

Christ keeps His promises.

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Now to Dismas, the Penitent Thief, who is indeed looking down upon us from Heaven!  Was he baptized?  Yes, he was.

It is of faith in Christ that Baptism is a necessary, indispensable means of salvation and as has already been said, the words of Christ make that plain.

Furthermore, St. Paul teaches, "For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. And if you are Christ’s, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise." Gal. 3:27,29  

Here the Holy Spirit teaches that we are not only bathed and anointed by sanctifying grace by Baptism, but that there is an intimate union between the baptized person and Christ.

That's what happened to Dismas...he was baptized in Christ Jesus.

According to the teachings of the Church Doctors and Fathers, particularly St. Ambrose and St. Augustine, there are two other types of Baptisms---Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood or martyrdom for Christ.  

The Penitent Thief was baptized by desire which is associated with perfect contrition of sins based on charity. The Council of Trent teaches that justification from Original Sin is not possible "without the washing unto regeneration or the desire for the same." According to Scripture, perfect love possesses justifying power St.Luke 7:47and St.John 14:21.  "This day thou shalt be with Me in Paradise." St.Luke 23:43.

According to the subjective disposition, Baptism of  desire works by bestowing sanctifying grace which remits Original Sin, all actual sins, and the eternal punishment for sin. The Baptismal seal is not imprinted, nor is it the gateway to other Sacraments that normally follow the saving graces of Baptism by water and the Holy Spirit.

The penitent Thief, just before dying on the cross next to Jesus, although no longer able to amend his evil life, was contrite and by his own words that came no doubt from his heart, expressed faith, hope and charity (love). Those words were in effect , his good works.

Look closely at the incident of the Penitent's Thief's preparing for his final moments before his death.  Both thieves reproach Jesus is some measure St.Matt. 27:44, and eventually the penitent thief rebukes the unrepentant one and does this in the face of all the others jeering at Christ telling Him to save Himself. Jesus taught long before this "whoever acknowledges Me before men, I will also acknowledge him before My Father in Heaven." and Christ keeps His promises.

Next, the Penitent Thief asks the other thief, "Don't you fear God?" Doesn't that say something about him? In Acts and Romans we read that those who fear God are blessed with salvation.

In St.Luke 23:41, the Penitent Thief tells the other one that both of them are "punished justly". This shows an inner sense of justice that he is able to convict himself of sin before God. He says  of Jesus, "this Man has done nothing" realizing the goodness of Jesus. Next he says to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom".

The Thief initiates the discussion. He admits his guilt. As God had blessed Cornelius in Acts 10 for his fear and devotion, so Jesus blessed the thief saying, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise."

It seems to me from careful reading that the thief already had faith in God as demonstrated by his fear of God that he expressed to the other thief. He now had to put that faith into action (good works) and he couldn't do that by using his arms and legs, so to speak, but he did so by reaching out to Jesus in perfect contrition of his passed sins, however limited in the way he was doing so.

Had he not reached out, he would have been condemned just like the unrepentant thief who remained silent.

The Penitent thief is a story of coming to Jesus in repentance of sin, seeking to be forgiven, albeit in this case a last minute one.

St. Ambrose wrote the episode of the 2 thieves invites us to admire the designs of Divine Providence. Both thieves are in the same position--in the presence of the Eternal High Priest as He offers Himself in sacrifice for them and all mankind. One of them hardens his heart, despairs and blasphemes while the other repents, corresponds with grace and was thereby saved. He left the cross for Paradise. Here, St.Ambrose comments, “The Lord always grants more than one asks: the thief only asked Him to remember him, but the Lord says to him, “Amen, I say to thee, this day, thou shalt be with Me in paradise.”

FAITH, HOPE AND LOVE AND BAPTISM OF DESIRE


The conversion of the penitent thief was a miracle of grace won by the merits of Christ. When the thief saw the patience and gentleness in which Jesus suffered and how He repaid injuries with love, and when he heard Him address God as His Father, he opened his heart to grace and believed that Jesus was the Messias and the Son of God. With this “faith” there was awakened in hope and confidence in the power of the Redeemer to pardon him.

He had committed great crimes and now, at the point of dying, he hoped to receive pardon.

Love for Jesus also entered his heart and impelled him to do what he could to protect Him from the insults of the other thief whom he upbraided for his blasphemies. From his love of Jesus proceeded a deep contrition which he made known by a sincere confession of his great guilt, whereby he had deserved the punishment of death. He accepted his punishment and suffered willingly in satisfaction of his sins. He didn’t ask to be delivered from temporal punishment, but acknowledged that his sufferings were no more than his due. His conversion therefore was very real and perfect, and Our Lord remitted all his sins and promised him possession of Paradise.

I see the difference of beliefs now. You are a Catholic, so you believe you need to have good works. First let me point out this verse:

Isaiah 64:6 (New Internation Version)

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Do you view baptism as a good work? That would explain why you view it as so important.

I always ask this question to people who believe you need good works for salvation:

Are you saying that Christ wasn't good enough to save you for all of your sins?

I find the belief in good works for salvation an insult to God. You are claiming that he wasn't good enough to get rid of all or your sins, and if you believe you have any chance of succeeding where you claim God has failed, you are dreaming.

Rather than viewing good works as something you have to do to be saved, I see them as a lifestyle. I want to live Christianity as a lifestyle, rather than practice it as a religion. I can't feel close to my savior if I see him as a strict boss, demanding that I get baptized or he will take back what he has already given to me. I view God as my hero, my savior. The being I can turn to for any problem, whether it be a small problem, or a big one. Someone who is always watching me, protecting me, even if I have put him into the back of my mind.

On a smaller note, thank you for this. I had forgotten about my LORD for so long, it feels good to be back with him.    

I'm glad you responded. 

Yes, I'm Cathollic and figured out you are  not when you wrote that you believe Baptism is no longer necessary for salvation, for we already have salvation which are two 15th century doctrines developed by the Protestant forefathers that have been handed down to their followers.

So yes, it's clear we have a difference of beliefs.

I believe that the whole of Christ's Gospel teaches Baptism is necessary for salvation and that believing in Christ doesn't mean we already have salvation.  St.James knocks the "belief alone" idea out when he teaches that even the demons believe in Christ and they most certainly are not assured of salvation for believing in Christ.

Baptism is necessary for the salvation of all men, becasue Christ has said, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." So, from the time of Christ this has been the unequivical teaching of the Church. The reason lies in the fact that only Baptism (again be it by water and the Holy Spirit, by blood of martyrdom or by Desire as in the case of the Penitent Thief) remits Original Sin, and no one with any taint of sin can enter Heaven. 

For me, the question that remains unanswered is how can anyone  claim that Baptism isn't necessary for eternal life when Christ Himself plainly said Baptism, (whether it be by water and the Holy Spirit, by Desire or by Matrydom) is necessary?

So now "good works" is added to the mix and rightly so. 

No, I don't view Baptism as a "good work" (although whoever does the baptising in the name of Jesus Christ is doing good work, right?).  

To Catholics, Baptism is so important because Christ instituted it as a Sacrament and it's importance as being necessary for eternal life is shown throughout the Holy Bible. 

Jesus was baptized by St.John in the river Jordan, before He began His public life. The sacrament of Baptism was instituted by Christ then and commanded at His Ascension into Heaven.

We read in St.Matt. 28:19 that Christ said to His Apostles, "Go therefore make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

The Apostles obeyed His commands on the day the Church was born, the First Pentecost. St.Peter's first sermon preached Christ's Gospel and the multitudes believed and were converted. They asked "What shall we do?" And St. Peter said, "Repent and be baptized for every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will recive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts. 2:38. 3,000 persons were baptized into Christ's new fledgling Apostolic Church.

To Cahtolics, Baptism is the sacrament by which the Holy Spirit gives our soul the new life of sanctifying (Divine) grace, removes the stain of Original Sin and actual sins and we become Christians, children of God, and heirs to Heaven.

  Catholics also believe that in Baptism the Holy Spirit imprints an indelible sign or Character on our soul that marks us as Christians and cannot be removed by anything. This character prevents the sacrament from being repeated; that is we can be baptized only once. "For all you who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Gal. 3:27. 

Regarding your question (highlighted) ..the answer is NO. Your question shows you are making redemption and salvation as the same thing when Scripture teaches they clearly are not. Salvation and Justification are the result of grace with faith (belief) in Christ an essential condition. Rom. 3:22-26, Eph. 2:8-13; Phil 3:8-10.

In virtue of the bloody sacrifice of our Savior's life, remission of sin and sanctification were granted. But we aren't saved through faith alone, that is by confidently believing that we are. St.Paul knew the place of grace and was aware of the fact that man is free and can do good or evil works (sin). Faith in Christ is an essential condition but St.James teaches so along with that is doing good works. He teaches that by doing good works our faith is showing. In other words, by doing good works,  we are living the Christian faith.  St.James teaches faith if it hasn't works is dead. 2:17, 20.

Amen. It's both at the same time! Plain and simple, doing "good works" IS the Christian lifestyle. And to understand even better what good works have to do with our salvation we must turn to the scene of the last Judgment as depicted by Our Savior:

[31] And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

In this description those saved are those who did good works and those condemned are those who did no good works. St.Paul teaches in Col. 3:17 and 1Cor. 13:3 that good works must be done in the name of Christ and for the love of God. 

i hope after reading the scene of the Last Judgment in St.Matt. 25:31-46 you change your mind.

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For Catholics, living Christianity as a lifestyle and pracicing it as a religion is exactly the same thing.

Here's something that Pope Benedict XVI said just yesterday as he declares this coming year to be the "Year of Faith:.

"I know him in whom I have believed" (2 Tm 1:12). These words of St Paul help us to understand that faith is "first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed." Faith which is a personal trust in the Lord and the faith which we profess in the Creed are inseparable; they focus on each other and they require each other. There exists a profound bond between the lived faith and its contents. The faith of the Witnesses and Confessors is also the faith of the Apostles and Doctors of the Church.

Thus, the following recommendations for the Year of Faith desire to aid both the encounter with Christ through authentic witnesses to faith, and the ever-greater understanding of its contents. These proposals are intended as examples to encourage a ready response to the invitation of the Holy Father to live fully this Year as a special "time of grace."

The joyous rediscovery of faith can also contribute to consolidate the unity and communion among the different bodies that make up the wider family of the Church.

From Zenit.org April 6, 2012 ....Fr. Cantalamissa's Good Friday Sermon

Among the personages of the Passion with whom we can identify, I realize that I have neglected to name one that more than all awaits those who will follow his example: the good thief.

The good thief made a complete confession of sin; he says to his companion who insults Jesus: “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong” (Luke 23:40f.). Here the good thief shows himself an excellent theologian. Only God in fact, if he suffers, suffers absolutely as innocent; every other being who suffers should say: “I suffer justly,” because even if he is not responsible for the action imputed to him, he is never altogether without fault. Only the pain of innocent children is similar to God’s and because of this it is so mysterious and so sacred.

How many atrocious crimes in recent times remained anonymous, how many unresolved cases exist! The good thief launches an appeal to those responsible: do like me, come out into the open, confess your fault; you also will experience the joy I had when I heard Jesus’ word: “”today you will be with me in Paradise!” (Luke 23:43). How many confessed offenders can confirm that it was also like this for them: that they passed from hell to heaven the day that they had the courage to repent and confess their fault. I have known some myself. The paradise promised is peace of conscience, the possibility of looking at oneself in the mirror or of looking at one’s children without having to have contempt for oneself.

Do not take your secret to your grave; it would procure for you a far more fearful condemnation than the human. Our people are not merciless with one who has made a mistake but recognizes the evil done, sincerely, not just for some calculation. On the contrary! They are ready to be merciful and to accompany the repentant one on his journey of redemption (which in every case becomes shorter). “God forgives many things, for a good work,” says Lucia to the Unnamed in Manzoni’s novel “The Betrothed”; with greater truth we can say, he forgives many things by one act of repentance. He promised it solemnly: “though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool” (Isaiah 1:18).

Let us take up now and do what we heard at the beginning, it is our task this day: with joyful voices let us exalt the victory of the cross, intone hymns of praise to the Lord. “O Redemptor, sume carmen temet concinentium”[8]: And you, O our Redeemer, receive the song we raise to you.