That's ok but how much have you read it or studied it?  I try to encourage everyone (since it's the best seller of all time) to give it one year of complete study before they spout off about it.  At least be confirmed in your own mind, not using the minds of others which is mostly the case. 

Well since I've put in alot of time and effort into this book I'm pretty confident in what it says.  Many who went in, over the years, to try and discredit this book also realized there's more than meets the eye and became convinced of its authority.   How do you know the inconsistencies are not of your mind and not of the book?  I'm not going to buy them (inconsistencies) because I know most of them already and they are nothing but poppycock and easily shown to be so. 

But yes we can agree to disagree.  I'm quite fine with that. 

So far as I know I am of sound mind and intellect. For everyone's sake I guess I should look into that.

I think that will be the norm between us here on JU. I don't seem to be able to convince you and I don't plan on changing my mind drastically either.

They (scientists) are getting pretty close to being able to create life from what i've read. Granted, with every experiment there comes trial and error.

I've actually ready about eighty to ninety percent of it. I went through my own little spiritual crisis years back and studied it and other spiritual texts. My personal favorite is anything Buddhist. They really do seem to have things down fairly pat (somewhat) .

My basis for not going with the bible isn't so much that I'm against the religion or the followers of Christianity, I just don't believe in seemingly mindless faith. I also do not believe in the complete and utter infalliability of a written text. My opinion on the Bible is that one should take it, and glean from it what they can. I admit there are some noble parts in it, like a few of the commandments.I believe that if there is a God or superior being, he would rather we use our heads than just take things on faith.

Since we're on the topic, I myself have reached the point where I "believe in" mpersonal idealism. I believe in the good qualities of the world (Love, hope, compassion, etc...) and promote them as much as I can. That is my faith, if you will, within the constraints and guidelines of logic, and rationality. Simple enough. And guess what, no one has to go to hell for eternity.

BTW:

~Genesis 1:3-5~

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 ⁴And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 ⁵And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

~Genesis 1:14-19~

"¹⁴And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 ¹⁵And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

 ¹⁶And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

 ¹⁷And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

 ¹⁸And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

 ¹⁹And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist one more time or so)

I am assuming that your explaination is that the two different lights mentioned in this are the light of day and night, and then stars. Still....I'm curious.

good because I do like to have good conversations with sound intelligent people.    Around here it seems for every 10 Jusers we have 12 opinions and not all of them are of sound mind and intellect IMHO. 

no, not even close.  There's some sort of protector barrier that's stopping this from happening.  It's one thing to clone animals but I doubt we'll ever see this done in humans.  

Who told you it's a mindless faith?  That's a fallacy.  See that's what I mean by listening to others.   All you have to do is pick up the book to see it's not about a mindless faith at all.  It takes alot of brain and thought and study to make sense of this book.  It's a lifetime of study.   God gave us a brain and he does expect us to use it.  He told us to love him with our whole MINDS, hearts and souls.  He never said to check your brain at the door.  So now that I've told you that.......well?  

We take alot of things on faith without even thinking about it.  I sit in a chair and I have faith it's going to hold me.  I buy a can of corn and I have faith corn will be in that can when I get it home.  I go out to my car and I just take it for granted it's going to get me where I have to go.  Heck, I've even driven "mindlessly" sometimes by rote without even thinking lost in a daydream.  Many times we do put faith in mere mortals.....why not a big creator God? 

Promoting the good things of life are commendable but will not get you into heaven.  You'd better do your HW and make sure you're right on this. I've spent many years researching all this stuff and I'm telling ya, nothing makes sense outside of Christ.  But it's your journey and all I'm saying is don't quit checking things out.  It's worth it. 

The light in v3 is not the sun which wasn't created until the 4th day, but some fixed light source outside the earth most likely having something to do with the Glory of God.  The light source of the first day was replaced by the sun and moon.  Their purposes were to distinguish day and night to be signs to mark off the seasons and to give light to the earth.

If you go to the last book you'll see that in the new replaced earth there will be no sun nor moon for light.  So I'm guessing we're going back to that first light source that we saw in v3. 

"and the city had no need of the sun neither of the moon to shine in it for the glory of God did lighten it; and the lamb is the light thereof."  Rev 21:23

If you read the book of John you'd read repeatedly especially there that Jesus is called the Light of the World. 

I apoligize, in my culture (israeli) words are never obscene, only situations or intent. I was thinking of the F word as synonymous for sex and forgot some people get all uptight about it. While I find the notion silly, I respect your wishes: I replaced it with fornicate.

ALDERICJOURDAIN POSTS: # 75

Your dissembling is indeed playing devil's advocate! There is no inalienable, natural or moral or legal right to abortion. Period.  

See Below

So they haven't been able to successfully recreate the womb, it doesn't mean they won't be able to at some point in the future.

Just for the record, I am NOT pro-abortion, I am pro-choice.  I would like nothing more than for abortion to not be necessary.  I am also indifferent towards war, there are times when it is justified (ie US invasion of afghanistan) and times when I feel that it isn't justified (ie US invasion of Iraq).

Defensive wars are a necessary evil, offensive wars are rarely necessary.  Offensive wars are generally started to increase territory or force the spread of a culture on those unwilling to accept the culture peacefully.

Ok, but who are you to tell someone that they don't have the opportunity to make those choices for themselves?  Why not merely council someone that maybe abortion isn't the answer but if they still want to do it, let them in a safe and legal manner then they have to live with whatever consequences come in this life or the next (if there is a next life).

And that's fine for you, but what about all the people out there who don't believe in God?  Shouldn't they still be allowed to make choices for their own lives just like you make for yours?  Again if there are consequences after this life is over fine we will all have to live with the consequences of our own actions.  I just don't see why your choices should be more important than anyone elses especially when you believe in a God that gave us free will so that we could make our own choices.

Just fyi, telling someone who doesn't believe in a heaven or hell that they won't get into heaven doesn't really mean much.  I know every time I hear that I am going to hell for any aspect of how I live my life it doesn't phase me because I don't believe in hell.  Now if I happen to be wrong after I die so be it, but that doesn't change the fact that bringing things like this up to someone who doesn't believe in heaven doesn't mean much.

Ehh, I'm still skeptical. I just cannot buy that a light source being replaced by the sun and moon.If there was a sound, logical, scientific way to explain it, then maybe I could accept it.

Like I said earlier, I appreciate your concern for my well being. I really do, it's something that few and far between in the world we live in. Still, I am at peace with what I believe in and plan to continue being open minded to things, skeptical and critical, but open.

Far too often I see people who are religious (regardless of their religion) not put serious thought into things. They just seemingly toss things into the wind and hope it is their God's will. They are also not willing to acknowledge the physical things in front of them that are proven time and time again. They also tend to accept things without basis, but will not accept things with basis. (Example: The misconception on evolution) Sorry, but I would rather use what I have with me/on me first - before I  just give to a higher being. Maybe it is just due to my negative experiences with religion and religious people. :shrugs:

That being said - I tend to rely on myself only and get things done.

#1 - I read an article in either Scientific American, Science Journal (think that's the one), or one of the big Medical journals and they talked about a groupe getting pretty darn close to it. There are also accounts of it successfully happening.In fact, according to the Huntington Reproductive Center, over 15% of people in the US will have children artificially (i.e. through IVF or other means)

#2 - Technically they have created "artificial life," because there is in vitro fertilization. In fact the Jones Institute for reproductive medicine has (from 28 Dec 1981  to 31 Aug 2008 ) successfully - for lack of a better term - birthed 3,550 babies.

( Source )

( Source 2 )

#3 - I'm curious as to your opinion on the following. All life has to have a soul correct? (Not including animals according to Christianity, right?) And all life is created by the will of God. So life that was not created by God as you say - i.e. in a lab, a la IVF - then does that mean that those babies do not have a soul? Also, who are you to say that God did not have a hand in the IVF and does not have a hand in the other wet alife processes? 

Perhaps. Still though, sometimes people may be of sound mind/intellect, and they may even have reached their result with sound rationale, but still others view themas nuts. A decent example is you and I. You've put sound thought into your acceptance of your God as your higher being; however, I don't see the sense or logic in it. Likewise, vice versa.

Anyways, I do my best.

No disprespect, but in my opinion you take things far too serious lula. Like with KFC, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Cheers!

~Alderic

I am concerned about eternity for all those I come into contact with, but know that it's ultimately between them and their maker.  It was never really about me and them anyway.  But you say this:

after you said this in #122:

I think that will be the norm between us here on JU. I don't seem to be able to convince you and I don't plan on changing my mind drastically either.

so which is it?  You just contradicted yourself. Do you really have an open mind or is it really closed to whatever I have to say? 

and to be honest....you can't.  Only God himself can make sense and show you the logic behind all this.  It's not up to me.  I'm not God.  I've been where you are now.  Not one person could talk me into the whole God thing.  It took God himself to open my dull vision and deaf ears.  He made himself very real to me.  If you're really searching (as in genuinely) he'll do the same for you.  Doesn't matter what I say or do really. 

Good question.  I don't know the answer to the first part of your question.  I know that we are made up of soul, body and spirit.  I would imagine but can't say for sure that everyone has a soul.  Though it seems today there are some out there that seemingly don't have a soul on account of their actions.  I've heard a prison official say one time there are some out there that when you look into their eyes it's as though they have no soul.  You know the eyes are the window of the soul they say. 

I believe God allows things to happen regardless if he's ok with it or not.  I can give you countless examples.  As a parent I would watch my children make a decision I was not ok with but wanting them to figure things out on their own.  God is saying to us with his "thou shall nots" don't hurt yourself.   When we do it anyway we figure out that we were in fact harmed in some way.  We have a tendency not to listen to good advice. 

One can never be too serious when it comes to defending life.

My belief is that they would, but are just in a learning process. (For the record, my beliefs tend to come from Buddhism)

Hmm, perhaps.

Perhaps, we will see. Right now though, my plan is to just continue on in life, starting with getting my college education.

Like I said, I do not "plan" on changing my mind; however, that does not mean that down the road months or even years from now that my opinion will be the same. That is not to say that I plan every little aspect of my life, although schedules are a life saver, but I tend to let things kind of flow and keep the future in mind while dealigng with the hear and now.Life is a never ending lesson and maturation process. Who knows, 7 years down the road I might have found your God, or he may have found me.

True, and that concern is noble.

Yes and no; I have always felt that strength, not force is the best with defending anything. What I mean is that when you defend something you have an inner strength regarding whatever it is, whereas the outer strength comes into play as well, though I tend to see that more as when you protect a child or family/friends. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

~Alderic

lula posts:

KINGBEE POSTS # 100

Obama and the radical Democrat Left are in charge now and he/they are paying back the radical feminist and homosexual crowd by helping advance their respective agendas. So, in keeping the 4th, 5th and 6th commandments of Obamanation, it's no surprise that states will moving away from teaching sexual abstinence to teaching kids to manage sexual behavior using condoms and contraceptives.

Obama plans to alter HIV/AIDS funding to favor comprehensive sex ed HIV programs which translated means support for teaching kids that abortion, promsicuity and homosexuality are acceptable options.

Teaching kids to "use a condom" does not advance homosexuality. As a hetrosexual satan never tried to "tempt" me with cock.

There is absolutely NO link between promiscuity and homosexuality. Your argument was shady when it was "sex ed leads to promiscuity", saying that promiscuity leads to homosexuality just makes you seem like a loon.