I  “glossed over” nothing.

There are so many fables about the Crusades; it’s difficult to know where to begin. All this tells me is that repeating misinformation will always be with us.

Evil, wicked, merciless Catholic crusaders vs. wonderful, warm and loving, humanitarian Seljuk Turk leader, Saladin. Indoctrination by liberal revisionist history.   Of course, Hollywood helped on that score as well.

During the first century, the Church was established in Jerusalem and in the Book of Acts, the Apostle St.James is  her first bishop. According to Eusebius, St.James died in 63AD, he was succeeded by the Apostle St.Simon who lived until 107. He lists 13 successive bishops through 135, all were Judeo-Christians. From Mark of Caesarea on all of Jerusalem’s bishops were non-Jewish. During the 2^nd century, the Church developed throughout Mesopotamia. In 312, Jerusalem acquired great importance because of the Basilica of the Holy Sepulcher (Our Lord Jesus Christ’s tomb) was  built by Constantine the Great and his mother, St. Helena. This led to a great influx of pilgrims, by the thousands, as well as the building of more churches and monasteries.    

Islam originated in Arabia in the 7^th century and at that time, Egypt, Libya, and all of North Africa were Catholic and had been so for hundreds of years. So were Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Asia Minor.

 In 614, Christian Jerusalem was taken by Persians who destroyed all the churches, monasteries, including the Basilica of the Holy Sepulchre. They massacred thousands of its inhabitants and the Christians capitulated to living under the rule of the Fatimad Arabs. In 1072, these Arabs were displaced by the Seljuk Turks who reinvigorated the jihadist spirit of Islam in Jerusalem which had as its goal the imposition of its religion and Mohammedan law on all the Middle East and Europe.

The resultant wave of indignation against this was the main cause of the Crusades.

The dreadful tales finally got to Pope Urban II and in 1095, he stressed the outrages suffered by Catholics at the hands of the militant Muslim Turks who had invaded their land, depopulated them by the sword, pillage and fire, and kept them as captives, etc. etc. etc.

Convinced that the menace of Islam threatened the existence of Western civilization, and that he alone had the power to organize a large expeditionary force (to call a Crusade) to defend Christianity from Muslim advance, Pope Urban made a call to the nobility of Western Europe.

Do you understand just wars from unjust wars? The Crusades were just wars. From 650 to 1095, after 400 years of Muslim assault and aggression, the Crusades were called as a defense of Christendom and Christianity. The goals were very clearly laid out ...the liberation of the Holy Land and the deliverance of Catholics of the East from Arab and Turkish rule. This was a defensive reaction against the Islamic threat that burst out of Arabia and took control of these lands in obedience to the words of the Qur’an and the Prophet Mohammed.

The response came and hundreds of knights, the Crusaders, after a 5 week siege, retook Jerusalem on July 15, 1099 establishing several Crusaders states that would last for almost 2 centuries.

Balderic, a bishop and 12^th century historian wrote that the Crusaders killed between 20 and 30 thousand. However, Ibn al-Jawzi wrote a hundred years later that 70, 000 Muslims were killed. By the 15^th century, the number had grown to over 100,000. So, the story of the massacre has grown.

The Crusaders sack of Jerusalem went by the military standards of the medieval day. In those times, it was the accepted principle of warfare that if the city under siege resisted, it was the ordinary thing to do.

In 1148, the Muslims killed every Catholic in Aleppo. In 1268, the jihad forces took Antioch and that city was pillaged, looted, ransacked, set on fire and the women were sold. The Church of St. Paul and the Cathedral of St. Peter  were destroyed; the priests, monks and deacons had their throats cut.

The most notorious one may be the jihadists’ entry into Constantinople on May 29, 1453. By then, after the pillaging was finished and all the property was in ruin, instead of killing everybody, the jihadists’ realized the captives and precious objects could bring them greater profit. The Catholic churches were turned into mosques, and the Catholics were either martyred, enslaved or turned into the rank of dhimmis.

 As far as the Jews, neither Pope Urban nor any subsequent pope who called for a crusade ever directed the Crusaders against the Jews. It was a German nobleman, Count Emicho and his marauders who targeted the Jewish populations and killed them for their wealth. The bishops of Mainz, Speyer and Worms and Catholic families tried to save the Jews by sheltering them. It worked, their lives were spared but their property and goods were stolen. Count Emicho and his band finally got their due when they reached the Hungarian border.

Now, let’s get back to your hero, Saladin, who inflicted great damage on the Crusaders. He treated those Catholic infidels with full honors, huh?

Nope. When Saladin defeated the Crusaders at Hattin on July 4, 1187, he ordered the mass execution of them all in accordance with Qur’an 47:4. However, the Catholic commander, Balian of Ibelin, threaten to destroy Jerusalem and kill the Muslims before Saladin could get inside so Saladin relented…but only until he got inside.

I wrote a blog entitle, "Making Choices" that you may want to check out in answer to these questions....

https://forums.joeuser.com/412745

The Inquisition, as a tribunal dealing with religious heresy, had jurisdiction only over baptized Catholics.

The Inquisition was the most just and benign tribunal of its time, in the opinion of historians. It protected the rights of defendants and established a level of Christian jurisprudence.

More false information has been circulated against the Church on the topic of the Papal Inquisition than on any other topic. 

The Inquisition, a system of ecclesiastical courts for trying and punishing heresy, was established in 1230, with jurisdiction over Catholics and fallen-away Catholics only. These courts were commissioned to seek first the reformation of the heretics by warnings or slight penances, which most accepted.

Their scrupulous rules of procedures protected the accused with more safeguards than defendants in modern courts receive today. Only relapsed or intransigent heretics were eventually found guilty and, as the ecclesiastical courts' authority ended there, were turned over to the state, which at that time considered heresy a crime of anarchy and high treason, undermining the state.

The Inquisition was revived in the 15th century to deal with false conversions of Jews and Mohammedans (the so- called conversos), and in the 16th century to deal with the virulent Protestant heresy that was sweeping Europe.

Even the Spanish Inquisition did not proceed against sincere followers of any religion, but only against those Spaniards, Jews, and Moors who, having once been members of the Catholic Faith, pretended to be Catholics, but had actually given up their faith and become involved in treacheries against Spain.

Circa 1492, the top Jews in Spain had wormed their way into high positions of Church and State by pretending to be Christians. These false Marrano Jews, as they were called, were working with the Muslims across the strait of Gibraltar to overthrow Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand, and turn a Christian country into a Moslem country.

“Evil, wicked, merciless Catholic crusaders vs. wonderful, warm and loving, humanitarian Seljuk Turk leader, Saladin” Lula, you still don’t get it??? I didn’t say Saladin was a lovable teddy bear or that the Catholic crusaders were the scourge of the earth so you do yourself a disservice with this nonsense. You assume too much. But, this is a prime example of how you manipulate things, go figure. So Saladin is now my hero too, hehehe … you are funny. I view Islam in the same light as the Roman Catholic Church … it is all claptrap. Since I don’t have a favorite side I am free to look at both sides and I have. My conclusion is that both Churches have an unearthly desire to take dominion of the whole planet and have been butting heads since their inceptions.

In the face of so much overwhelming scientific evidence, you guys have adopt standards of such unreasonableness that virtually nothing could be considered true if this crap were applied across the board. You claim the Seljuk Turks goal was to impose its religion and Mohammedan law on all the Middle East and Europe. Well, what is it your people were doing there … playing hopscotch? Or do you imagine that they (the enemy) were (are) any less fervent towards their supernatural beliefs than you are? Somehow, you are right and they are wrong … just because you say so. You do not seem to even be capable of applying simple reasoning to an argument because you do not utilize the extensive databases I do. Like a good little Christian, you adhere only to zealot propaganda and make claim that it is all true.

“Do I understand just wars from unjust wars?”, hehehe. What I understand is that if you are Catholic (or Muslim) you will of necessity; define your guys as good and their endeavors just ... same as they do. But that doesn’t make it true.  Your rendition of the Crusades is factual on dates … but I wouldn’t go to Modern Aftermath of the Crusades (item 7051 digitally provided courtesy of CatholicCulture.org) for my proof or arguments. I prefer people like world renowned linguistic scholar, author and MIT professor Noam Chomsky for insights. If you only look at religious prattle, all you will get is one side of the equation. Be as dogmatic as you will on your religious documentation, there is nothing stopping you from honestly trying to gain the other perspective … the other side of the equation. But I guess that would be an ethics violation for you in your struggle to convince the world at large that they are wrong and you are right.

It is amazing how you take things out of context when making arguments, simply amazing. When you state that the Inquisition had jurisdiction over only Catholics, you failed to mention that due to Catholic engineering; almost everyone fell under their jurisdiction.  Are you actually naive enough to think that the Church would allow any infidel to escape their persecution? Try this one: The purpose of the Inquisition from the 1578 handbook for inquisitors states “... for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit. “Which of course was anything un-Catholic.  It seems to me that this statement or one similar would be found in any terrorist’s handbook as well. You mentioned “The Inquisition was the most just and benign tribunal of its time, in the opinion of historians.” but forgot to mention that the legal basis for much inquisitorial activity came from Pope Innocent IV's papal bull Ad extirpanda of 1252, which authorized and regulated the use of torture in investigating heresy.  Sentences were carried out by civil authorities who were of course Catholics who were well aware how easy it was to find oneself on the hot seat. So you don’t get a pass here either, sorry. What historians are you referencing here, oh I see … I get it, Catholic historians I’m sure.

I assume too much? really? YOu didn't say that not only Crusaders but Catholics in general were the scourge of the earth?

Hmmm? Let's look at post 167.

and post 187:

In my reply 174, I said it's always been acknowledged that Catholics have killed and brought violence to others...even today with the violence and death to innocent babes in the womb brought about by votes from "Catholic" politicians like Biden and Pelosi.When Catholics don't act like Catholics and don't practice the Faith (and there is a lot of that out there), it's scandalous and woe to them. 

I also asked a real thinking question......what does the sorry fact that Catholics have brought death and violence and destruction to others prove? 

Certainly not what you and other anti-Catholics think it proves. Certainly not that the Catholic Church and Catholiciism is the cause, is therefore evil and must be completely eradicated as one of the chief propagandists for atheism, Christopher Hitchens, asserts.

What must be grapsed is that no account of sins by Catholics can undue the Divine foundation of the Church and Catholic Faith which on Christ's own promise will continue in perpetuity until the end of the world and time.

I also asked that you take a good look around you and acknowledge that it's not Catholics practicing Christianity who are responsible for the most wars, killing and destruction around the world. There is no comparison with the atheistic slaughter in the name of religion free and godless utopias by tyrants......the figure is over 169 million.

You are free to look at what atheistic regimes have done and are doing....yet, that has gone without your notice or rebuttal.

Ok. Good point. I went too far...maybe he's not your hero.

Aye-yi-yi.

First, it must be pointed out there is a vast difference between Christ and His Holy religion, Christianity, and Mohammed who established Islam around 650AD. There is also a vast difference between the way Christianity and Islam is spread to others.

Christ established His Church and commanded that she preach and teach His doctrines first to the Jews and afterwards that she  "go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.".  So that's what "my people", the Church, did! This is the way individuals became/become Catholic. It's called conversion. At the time of the Crusades, the people in Jerusalem, Egypt, Libya, all of North Africa, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Asia Minor had already heard about Christ, His teachings and became converted to Catholicism.  

Read Mohammed's history, the Qur'an, and the imposition of Islam upon individuals throughout the ages. Islam means submission and not in a passive sense. Submission for the followers of Mohammed means to carry out the doctrine of jihad ...a permanent war to reign until Islam is dominant all over the world. Islam's domination of the world was spread by the sword and it nearly destroyed all of Christendom had it not been for the calling of the Crusades.

The fact is the presence of Christianity in the Middle East and Europe antedates that of Islam by more than half a millennium. So, it's Islam, the latecomer, the aggressive and militant force determined to uproot the religion of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, who first took up arms against Catholics.   

Islam intent for domination is by no means over today. It's strong over a billion adherants around the world. They've taken over North Africa and parts of what was first Catholic, then Protestant, now secular Europe. Islam is on the move. It's a present threat and not to be minimized. Especially in England, France and the Netherlands. For the Catholics there, just as centuries earlier, it's about freedom to practice their religion.

 EDIT:

The Dark Ages, nothing but another vain attempt at slamming the Church.

Why don't you try to find out the truth instead of taking for granted these assertions you come across? Is it because of prejudice and hate against the Church?

As regards to your estimate of the Dark Ages, 2 things are necessary when drawing conclusions from history. 1st...get your facts right and 2nd---get your interpretation of the facts right . You've done neither of these.

The "Dark Ages" is the Renaissance humanists derogatory designation for the Middle Ages.  When I look up "Dark Ages" in my daughter's history book, I'm referred to "the Middle Ages". I note it describes the High Middle Ages as well.

Scientific historical research uncovered the rich development of the Middle Ages in the fields of technology, (i.e the wheeled plow, the horse collar and shoe, the crank motion and soap), in philosophy, music, art, literature economic expansion and education. I

The Church was highly involved in medieval architecture, music, painting and sculpture and education. Her monks founded schools and Universities all over Europe, copiously hand preserved the literature of the day. Professor Whitehead, a non-Catholic, said that the Middle Ages were pre-eminently an epic of orderly thought, rationalist through and through---forming one long training of the intellect of Western Europe in the sense of order." 

You might want to go to the local library and check out the book entitled, "The World's Debt to the Catholic Church" by Dr. James J. Walsh. It will surprise you.

As regards to your estimate of the Dark Ages, I'm willing to admit from the moral POV, that the fourteenth and fifteenth century could rightly be thus called. Side by side of the revival of art and literature there was also a revival of pagan morality in place of Christian virtues. Intellectual interest in a sensual philosophy very easily ends in a greater interest in sensuality. Men, interested in pagan classics, absorbed immoral poison of what they contained and they fell into vices quite at variance with Catholic standards. Men began to write filth only to render their beautiful souls filthy. The Renaissance had very ill effects upon the religious lives of both clergy and laity, and rendered the times very dark indeed from a moral point of view.

It is no wonder that you cannot reason things if your thoughts are as jumbled as your quotes and responses. If there was any intelligence for your first three quotes … I sure don’t see it. All I said was that Catholic and European expansionism around the world (want to see the map?) resulted in countless deaths including the destruction of complete cultures. Not sure that has much to do with the Crusades though? If there is some lie or whatnot in your quotes of 199, 167, 181 feel free to let me know???

“In my reply 174, I said it's always been acknowledged that Catholics have killed and brought violence to others... “. I am sure you did, who cares. Seems like a small footnote though considering the scope and extent of the murders made in the name of god is all. Pelosi is a Catholic … that explains a lot, hehehe. I tried on several occasions to explain to you that the barbarism of The Roman Catholic Church was doomed and through its own stupidity, go figure. I believe your eventual destiny was sealed with the invention of the telescope and through the efforts of human patriots who defied the Church.

“I also asked a real thinking question......what does the sorry fact that Catholics have brought death and violence and destruction to others prove? It proves that you are a bunch of hypocrites or in the words of our own few Natives … you speak with forked tongues”. Why must everything be so final … Come on now, completely eradicated, save that one for the other extremists like your Jihadist friends. Yea, certainly cannot be Christianity or the practitioners fault … it must say this is so somewhere in your bible right, get a life.

“You are free to look at what atheistic regimes have done and are doing....yet that has gone without your notice or rebuttal.” Silly, how can I rebut something that has presumably gone without my notice?  You are a wonderment so full of … surprises. You have no idea how silly you sound here (hahaha). Yea, Hitler, Stalin and the rest were probably heroes of mine too … because of what???

… But then again, who am I to question the unquestionable or at least to ask the unthinkable, God forbid.

Lula, I know that the Catholic Church has done many good things but the betterment of the human race never was and never will be one of their goals. But it is my opinion that the Church has done more harm than good throughout its existence. As far as I can figure the “Dark Ages” runs from the fall of Western Roman Empire in 476 AD to the 11th century whereas the “Middle Ages” runs from 476 AD to the 15th century. “Why don’t I find out the truth???) … You must be joking, geeze. I am not drawing conclusions (ok, some) but rather relating things that turned up in my research ... you know … kind of like you do??? You and I do not get our information from the same places for sure but it is nice to see that you can write without scriptures or mystical quotes from seasoned Catholics.

Maybe there are a few things we can establish so we do no keep this nonsense from getting worse.
 
     1.The Catholic Church’s word (bible included) is the only word you accept to be true and correct.
     2.All ‘other’ religions (or non-religions???) or religious practices anywhere in the world are all fakes or imitators.
     3.All your research (knowledge) comes from the confines of Catholic (religious) approved sources.
     4.You do not watch R rated movies because you find them offensive.
     5.Your one God never wrote the first word in any of your books or literature.
     6.You are a spokesperson for the Catholic Church and a true believer.
     7.Only #5 and #2 (when you take out the word ‘other’) applies to me.

If you find that 1 through 6 apply to you … well then, there is the problem. Just because you have sequestered yourself behind the veil of the Church doesn’t mean there isn’t a wealth of knowledge available to the rest of us pagans. Yea, I like that much better than atheist if for no other reason than atheist means so much to you … none of which applies to me (beyond the obvious). Michelle, the pagan … I like that much better. And just so you know, I think the one God of the Torah, the one God of the Bible and the one God of the Koran (among others) are confusing at best but I leave that in your capable hands because they are all fakes IMO.

Sorry to hear about Sudan … Sharia law is most likely how the cave men lived (with nuke club in hand) so I guess it predates well everything. One would think that after 50,000 7,000 years they could at least get one foot on the evolutionary ladder of life … I guess not. Joking aside, just remember this. You told me that it was your duty no your obligation to take your Catholic religion on the road and you have of your own free volition. Many times I have told you about death and destruction precipitated directly from Catholic Doctrine. You have been at war with Islam (and just about everyone else) since your inceptions. You do know what war is and what results from it don’t you. So you convert some portion of the population to Christianity and things change. Just because you think it is your godly right to take dominion of the Earth, you have not done so yet and never will. Your people are in a no win situation and your Church has at best a few prayers for them. Personally, I would leave but that’s just me.

I don't watch TV or go to the movies that often. The last movie I went to see was "The Rite" with Anthony Hopkins. Don't know if it was "R" rated or not.

But yes, in general,  "R" rated movies are offensive to me, whether in words or actions.

I try to keep myself away from occasions of sins and more times than not, "R" rated movies would put me in those situations.

-------------------------

I note you wrote the word "in" here. Well, truth is there is one place in the Bible where Christ wrote with His finger in the sand. St.John 8:6. Interesting read; check it out sometime.

But no, God Himself never actually wrote the Bible or any books or literature. 

Having said that, I believe the whole Bible is the written Word of God, that is they have as their principal Author, the Holy Ghost. Confusing? no, not really if one understands "inspiration". The Holy Ghost inspired the human authors of the Bible to write down in their own words in the manner and style of their day, what He wanted them to write down and He guided them to the extent that they wrote faithfully what they had been taught. 

This working together of man and God in the writing of the Bible is called "inspiration". Inspiration covers not only matters of faith and morals, but extends as well to the facts of history as related, and to the whole Bible.

Now in Q.!  I said how I know this is true and correct. I go to the Church and I "hear the Church".

So how do I know with 100% certainity Biblical inspiration defined? The infallible teaching of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

Pope Leo XIII, in his encyclical, Providentissimus Deus, explains how inspiration affected Biblical writers. "By supernatural power God so moved and impelled them to write. He was so present to them, that they first rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth the things which He ordered, and those only."  

Also, Tradition confirms Biblical inspiration.  

"Spokesperson"...ha,ha,ha...you're being politically correct, eh?

I'm not a spokesman for the Catholic Church any more than if you know something about cars, you would be a spokesman for the automotive industry. 

Yes, I am a true believer in Christ, the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith. Catholicism is not just a collection of theological dogmas or propositions,  but rather it is a way of life, a culture in which I have a coherent way of seeing the world and a way of discerning, judging what is right and what is wrong with it.

Catholicism is the way I get to know, love and serve Almighty God in this world so I can be with Him in the eternal next.

I don't know. 

You can give the answer for yourself.