Is there only one way to reach God?
Published on April 25, 2011 By lulapilgrim In Religion

On another blog, a fellow JoeUser asked the following questions and made the following comments:

 

I am irritated with the closed-mindedness of organizations with causes. If there is only one way (YOUR way) to reach God … why are there so many divergent paths and religions making the same claim? What makes you think it is even conceivable that a paper trail in excess of 2000 years could contain much resemblance to the original fictions?

I am sure you have heard of the test that goes like this: Get a group of 10 people in a circle and whisper a statement to one person. Then they whisper it to the next and so on. There has never been a valid documented case where the original statement bore much resemblance to the 10th person’s statement. This is simply explained with the fact that people are different and they think ‘differently’. Organizations do not like this concept which they classify as ‘self-serving individualism’. 

I must be a fool (as you are want to tell me) because I do not believe that the concepts of lying, deceit and conspiracy, power struggles, suppressing the masses, limiting real knowledge, murder, deception and intrigue are new to this century or any other for that matter. But of course, religious theology was not susceptible to human contamination … of course. I believe these concepts were in existence long before recorded time. Why would this befouling of the truth affecting all of human history, exclude ONLY Christian Doctrine? Only mind dead robots could believe this absurdity.


Comments (Page 16)
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on Oct 26, 2011

Smoothseas
JU is quite funny in that respect. A lot of what I see here in regards to religion and politics are people who resort to name calling or who throw out the race or religion card when dealing with subjects or queries for which they have no valid response.
I quite agree. I have been following your 'chat' with the Doc, hehehe ... but you must include the ‘partisan’ card too, hahaha.

on Oct 26, 2011

 

Smoothseas
What I find interesting is how you keep trying to prove something with historical information (some correct and some incorrect)that can not be proven. The people I know who truly believe that their religion is more than just a control or teaching mechanism tend to say ultimately there is a "leap of faith".

Smoothseas
What I find interesting is how you keep trying to prove something with historical information (some correct and some incorrect)that can not be proven.

What can't be proven? I've already shown (without going into great detail) that Catholicism was the perfect fulfillment of the Divinely revealed OT Jewish religion. It can be historically shown that Jesus the Christ (God made flesh) founded the Catholic Church and the CC only.

That makes both the Catholic Faith and Church of Divine origin...and that just drives some people nuts, doesn't it?

You speak of faith. Now there is (natural) human faith and there is (supernatural) Divine faith. 

By faith we believe things. Now people don't believe with their feelings or emotions, rather they believe with their minds. Belief is a mental conviction.

Faith is not necessary to arrive at the conviction that God has actually given a revelation to mankind and that Christianity is that revelation. But while reason can prove the fact of this revelation, Faith is necessary for the full acceptance of the contents of that revelation.  

Quite apart from from religion, this holds true in natural faith which you would not dream of finding unreasonable. For example, reason tells me that there are very good grounds for accepting Professor X as an expert in his own branch of natural science. Now he tells me that there are no chromosomes in the simplest living cells. I accept that as a fact by faith in the knowledge and veracity of Professor X is an expert in this particular matter. If you ask me to prove that there are no chromosomes in the simplest living cells, I could show you where Prof. X states this to be a definite fact and certain conclusion of biological science and advance reasons for the acceptance of Prof. X as a compteent authority. If you refuse to have faith in Prof. X in this matter, you would reject his teaching; but the refusal of faith in him in this matter would be unreasonable.

So, too reason can justify the claims of the one true Christian religion (Catholicism) to be the revelation of God. But the teachings of that religion deal with truths of the supernatural order much more above the experience of ordinary human knowledge than Prof. X's chromosomes are above the average man's scientific experience. We, therefore accept Catholic teachings by faith; but that act of faith is reasonable in virtue of the reasonable grounds for the Catholic religion as the revelation of God.

Divine Faith is a virtue and a great gift of God. It doesn't imply burying one's head in the sand. It teaches a number of things which are above reason, for the revealed truths known only to God must be above human thought. But while Faith teaches some truths so profound as to be above natural reason, it never teaches any single  doctrine which is opposed to sound and rational principles. Prove any given Catholic doctrine to violate correct principles of reason, and I shall cease to believe in it at once. 

Smoothseas
You on the other hand tend to try to explain that your sect of Christianity is the only true one by using some statements that are truly opposite of the some of the teachings of Christ. That amazes (however does not surprise) me.

What are those statements that are truly opposite of some of the teachings of Christ?

 

 

on Oct 26, 2011

lulapilgrim
Man has the power to choose: either by subordinating his will to the Divine order, or to the satisfaction of his own desires and making himself the center of the universe.

Smoothseas
What you don't understand Lulu is that it is not an either or situation. Subordinating yourself to your belief in the divine order might be the only way you can avoid becoming the center of your universe, but it certainly doesn't work that way for everyone. Some people don't need to believe in a god to realize that they are not the center of the universe or to realize the consequences that satisfying certain desires might have

Yes, indeed...the choice for God or against God is set before us. We have the power to choose. It's called free will. God doesn't force Himself on us, so it is an either/or situation. 

Those people who don't believe in God replace God with self or some one. or something else (vice, work, power, money) as the center of their lives (universe).

 

Smoothseas
You then look at instances of countries that do not have this separation so impose "religious law" on the people.

What country has imposed Catholicism?

Smoothseas
So lets take a look at Vatican Law to see what a Catholic State might look like.



Art. 1 §1 declares that “The Supreme Pontiff, Sovereign of Vatican City State, has the fullness of legislative, executive and judicial powers

Art. 1 pertains to jurisdiction of the universal Catholic Church only. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the secular running of government or the temporal order of nations, states or countries.

 

 The Filippines is about 98% Catholic so I guess we could call it a Catholic State. However, the Vatican has nothing to do with the temporal affairs of running the country. At the same time, with a majority of Catholics, do the Church's teachings come into play...sure...that's why it's one of the only countries that has not accepted abortion as the law of the land. But the UN and its agancies are there trying to get their grimy sin-ridden policies in place. Satan never rests.  

 

on Oct 27, 2011

lulapilgrim
What can't be proven?

The existence of God.

lulapilgrim
Faith is not necessary to arrive at the conviction that God has actually given a revelation to mankind and that Christianity is that revelation.

I would say it takes faith and/or indoctrination to varying degrees depending on the environment in which an individual is raised.

lulapilgrim
Quite apart from from religion, this holds true in natural faith which you would not dream of finding unreasonable.

I don't find religion unreasonable. I have a very good understanding of why it exists. I admire many people I know who are devout. I admire the charitable nature of many religious organizations as well. I simply believe that the Bible contains the words of men and not the words of a God.

lulapilgrim
The Filippines is about 98% Catholic so I guess we could call it a Catholic State

No we cannot call it a Catholic State. The Philippines is actually a Republic.

There is no such thing as a secular Catholic State. You may have a secular state that has majority of Catholics in its population, however that is not a Catholic State. History has shown what can happen when religion gets into bed with government. It surely does not paint the picture of compassion and tolerance that you espouse.

 

 

on Oct 27, 2011

Smoothseas
Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 228

What can't be proven?

The existence of God.

Yes, Almighty God exists and yes, it can be proven; that is, the existence of God can be locigally demonstrated. His non-existence cannot.

------------------------------

lulapilgrim
Faith is not necessary to arrive at the conviction that God has actually given a revelation to mankind and that Christianity is that revelation. But while reason can prove the fact of this revelation, Faith is necessary for the full acceptance of the contents of that revelation.

Smoothseas
I would say it takes faith and/or indoctrination to varying degrees depending on the environment in which an individual is raised.

Did you read the second part of my statement? I made a distinction.

So back to my first statement (highlighted) and why I say that Faith is not necessary.....

The Christian religion really rests on a co-ordinated series of facts from Adam to Pope Benedict XVI, or to any Pope that may succeed him in the future until the end of the world. This series of facts is spread over thousands of years and embraces events, words, declarations or principles, doctrines and precepts, whether in ancient Jewish or Christian times. The ancient Jewish religion (God's revelation) which surely existed was really preparatory Christianity (not Protestantism), it's whole genius being a looking forward to the coming of Christ.  Catholicism is but ancient Judaism fulfilled by Christ.

 

on Oct 27, 2011

lulapilgrim
The Filippines is about 98% Catholic so I guess we could call it a Catholic State. However, the Vatican has nothing to do with the temporal affairs of running the country.

Smoothseas
No we cannot call it a Catholic State. The Philippines is actually a Republic.

Yes, I know.

Smoothseas
You may have a secular state that has majority of Catholics in its population, however that is not a Catholic State.

I understand that too. However, it could be considered a "Catholic State" if it's people were governed by laws that are in harmony or at least do not contradict God's laws, as abortion does.  

 

 

on Oct 29, 2011

lulapilgrim
However, it could be considered a "Catholic State"

Go ahead and consider it a catholic state if you wish, then take a trip there so you can see just how wonderful your catholic nirvana really is.

on Oct 29, 2011

Smoothseas
Go ahead and consider it a catholic state if you wish,

Thanks.

It's been said the Phillippines is the most Catholic Country in the whole world. It's present Constitution is in complete accord with God's laws concerning life and the dignity of the human person made in the image and likeness of God.

To their credit, Phillippino Catholics understand children are the only future a nation has and so far their Constitutional legislation reflects this. 

Satan hates this and that's why the anti-life movement, namely the US Foreign aid establishment, is over there trying to get their satanic idea of reducing the birthrate, only they call it "reproductive health" by changing its Constitution to institute programs that force sterilizations, force contraception and force abortions. 

 

 

 

on Oct 29, 2011

You totally missed my point. As you pontificate about your abortion crusade you should take a really good look at the Philippines. I've been there several times. You should take a look for yourself. I laughed when I read your statement about  "the harmony of god's law" when referring to the Philippines.

The subject of the OP you quoted was about a totally different matter. Unfortunately you couldn't (refused to) objectively debate that issue and instead decided to move straight into trying to invalidate every religious sect except your own. I can recall seeing a few news items over the past few years showing statistics suggesting that atheists and agnostics on average knew more about religion than many other religious types. My initial response was, hmmm...how could that be?  That question is very easily answered however when you listen to someone who doesn't even understand what faith is and where it applies in their own religion.

So let me tell you just one of many reasons why there are so many religions and in particular so many sects of Christianity. In simple terms it is that "because I told you so" is not a good answer when reality contradicts tradition.

 

on Oct 29, 2011

Smoothseas
As you pontificate about your abortion crusade you should take a really good look at the Philippines. I've been there several times.

Ok, so you've been there, however my point concerning the Phillippines stands---as far as religion...the Phillippines is a Catholic Country---whose present Constitution is in complete accord with God's laws concerning life and the dignity of the human person made in the image and likeness of God.

Smoothseas
The subject of the OP you quoted was about a totally different matter. Unfortunately you couldn't (refused to) objectively debate that issue and instead decided to move straight into trying to invalidate every religion sect except your own.

 

From my very first comment and throughout this discussion, I have objectively defended that there is but one true God and but one true religion of His making. That religion is ancient Hebraic  Judaism fully blossomed into Catholicism.

Sure there are many different religions out there. Common sense tells us it is not possible to believe that all the religions to be true. If any one of them is true, then the others are false. I'm saying I've found the one true religion of God's making. It can be proved historically that Christ lived, that He was God, and that He founded an imperishable Church which was to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic. Find that Church and you too will have the one true religion of God's making. 

Smoothseas
So let me tell you just one of many reasons why there are so many religions and in particular so many sects of Christianity. ....

First point: There is but one Christianity, the one holy religion of God's making, the one Christian Faith and it's called Catholicism.God sent His Son, Jesus Christ Who established one definite Church to which He gave His teaching authority to teach all truth until the end of the world.

There is no such thing as "so many sects of Christianity". There are, however, so many sects of Protestantism. But what is Protestantism? It's a man-made heresy as is Islam. Christ predicted that heresies would arise, but distincltly forbade men to abandon the Chruch and originate them. Since 1517, all the thousands of sects of Protestantism exist becasue men arrogated to themselves the right to coin new doctrines and set up churches of their own. Christ certainly did not establish any one of the thousands of Protestant sects so they are not of God's making.

 

Smoothseas
I can recall seeing a few news items over the past few years showing statistics suggesting that atheists and agnostics on average knew more about religion than many other religious types. My initial response was, hmmm...how could that be? That question is very easily answered however when you listen to someone who doesn't even understand what faith is and where it applies in their own religion.

So let me tell you just one of many reasons why there are so many religions and in particular so many sects of Christianity. In simple terms it is that "because I told you so" is not a good answer when reality contradicts tradition.

I've already given my explanation why there are so many different religions....

lulapilgrim
I would say that there are so many different paths and religions due either to the ignorance or perversity of people. People are by nature religiously inclined and those who lack knowledge of the true religion, (that is, the one true religion revealed by Almighty God, and there can only be one), invented religions for themselves— religions which differed even as the outlook differed of those who originated them.

So long as man arranges for himself what he will believe making a great act of faith in his own powers of discernment , there will inevitably be different churches, different paths, and thus different religions.

on Oct 29, 2011

lulapilgrim
I've already given my explanation why there are so many different religions

No you gave an explanation of why you think every other religion known to man is invalid except your own.

 

on Oct 29, 2011

Smoothseas
No you gave an explanation of why you think every other religion known to man is invalid except your own.

Oh my....that too!

on Oct 30, 2011

it's NOT about Religion.  It's about having a relationship with our Creator.  There are many, many, many who are religious but lost.  That was what Christ was saying all thru the gospels.  Just take a good look at Matt 23 and see all the woes directed at the religious in His day.  

 

It's all about truth vs tradition.  Lula what you are espousing is religious tradition.  It's men vs God.  I know you are very sincere but so weren't the religious zealots of Christ's day.  Judas was sincere.  The Pharisees were sincere.  Saul (before he became Paul) was sincere.  All were lost.  Christ gave us many warnings about the traditions of men vs His truth.  It's all thru scripture, old and new testaments.  

You have been warned.  

"Woe to the obstinate children, declares the Lord to those who carry out plans that are not mine forming an alliance but not by my Spirit heaping sin upon sin."  Isa 30:1

"Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help who rely on horses who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or seek help from the Lord."   Isa 31:1

 

This is what the Lord says "Cursed is the one who trusts in man who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the Lord."  Jer 17:5

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils.  Of what account is he?  Isa 2:22

Put away the RCC traditions/teachings and pick up the scriptures and read them.  

"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sits in the seat of the mockers.  But his delight is in the law of the Lord and on his law he meditates day and night.  He is like a tree planted by streams of water which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither.  Whatever he does will prosper."  Psalm 1

 

on Oct 30, 2011

lulapilgrim
Earth IS the privileged planet
No matter your beliefs, how could it be otherwise??? Considering that Earth is the only planet in the 'known universe' that sustains life and in particular humanity ... this is a revelation from God? What in the world would cause us to take say a Martian or Alpha Centaury perspective of things … all things considered?

on Oct 30, 2011

KFC, good to hear from you again! I have to apologize as I thought you too were a Catholic. I went through a period where the two blended into one. Of course, I didn't know at the time that you were only a 'second hand' Christian, go figure. As a matter of fact, I have learned much about the RCC and their inability to acquiesce to anyone or anything not in their best interests. The only disagreement I have with religion in general is the fact that I (personally) do not believe there ever was a ‘One God’ which unfortunately devaluates everything you believe in … I am sorry for that. But it is your right to believe whatever you desire, even if it is not factual, provable or the least bit possible. I admire you for your ethics and fortitude, if not your decision making. However, the RCC is another matter, one that I find offensive, not because of their religion, but because of their stoic dogma that they think gives them and only them the keys to the earth (and beyond). Anyway, good luck with the Catholics. It might help if you enjoy beating your head against a brick wall though.

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