Will only Catholics get to Heaven?

Yes and No

Published on April 7, 2008 By lulapilgrim In Religion

In another blog, I was asked this question: Do you believe a person must be Catholic to get to Heaven?

The short answer is I believe the only requirement for a person to get to Heaven is that person's soul must be completely free of sin.

Regarding the Church, Christ developed the image of the Good Shepherd and His Church through the image of the flock or sheepfold and who will be in it. Read St. John 10 only 42 short verses.

"I am the Good Shepherd; and I know mine and mine know me" v. 14 ..."And other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Them also, I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." v. 16 "As the Father knoweth me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep" v. 15 ....the Father and I are one." v. 30.

As far as the Church, I believe it cannot be a matter of indifference to which Church I belong. I have examined the reasons for my Catholic faith and also the claims of the Catholic Church. She is the only possible Church historically, Scripturallly, and logically and that she must be infallible in her official teachings in faith and morals. Once I knew that the Catholic Church is divinely qualified to speak the truth in religious matters, I accept her decisions and definitions. As far as I'm concerned nothing could be more wise than that. In fact, it would be sheer folly to do otherwise.

I believe that since Christ established one Church, I am not free to belong to any other. I believe that nevertheless, all those outside the Church through no fault of their own will be saved if they follow their conscience and do not die in mortal sin.

I cannot conscientiously say that one religion is as good as another. I believe that those who labor under ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance be invincible, are not before the eyes of God burdened with guilt for this thing. I believe that those will be lost who are convinced that the Catholic religion is the true religion and yet refuse to embrace it.

I believe that is what I mean when I say: "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation."

Is it not God's will that all should be Catholic?

I believe it is. For Christ established the Catholic Church, and commanded her go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the SOn and of the Holy Spirit. But He said also, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, he that believes not shall be condemned." He thereby tells us that not all who hear the truth will accept it. He Himself did not convert all to whom He preached. In individual cases, we must refuse to judge in which even those who have heard the truth concerning the Catholic Chruch apprehend its significance. Their responsibiliity in remaining non-Catholics must be left to Almighty God.

Meantime, we Catholics pray for them realizing that God's time is the best time. It is for us to pray that He give them the grace of the Catholic faith, and that they may correspond with that grace despite all difficulties when it becomes clear to them where God is calling them.

Comments (Page 3)

Jythier

on Apr 09, 2008

But having said that, isn't it also true, that in general, those who attend Mass or Church services on a regular basis are better armed to deal with the world, the flesh and the devil?

Perhaps better armed, but that's no good if you're not willing to shoot. Or take the safety off.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 09, 2008

Lula there is a difference in believing in God with your mind (as the devils you pointed out) and one that believes in his whole heart, soul and mind.

Paul said this:

"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead YOU SHALL BE SAVED.
For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation...........For whosoever shall CALL UPON THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

Romans 10

Nothing is said about being a member of the CC. Nothing is said about being baptized to be saved. Nothing is said about works. Over and over repeatedly it's all about belief.

Notice what you quoted:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, LOrd, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Notice what happens when I highlight differently.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, LOrd, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

What he's saying...and this goes so perfectly with the whole of scripture is....not everyone who SAYS......what he's saying is you have to have more than a SAID faith. Not everyone who says Lula.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 09, 2008

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, LOrd, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Notice what happens when I highlight differently.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, LOrd, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

What he's saying...and this goes so perfectly with the whole of scripture is....not everyone who SAYS......what he's saying is you have to have more than a SAID faith. Not everyone who says Lula.

You have to have more than a said faith...OK. I'll go along with that...but....the point is we can't stop there because Christ goes on and says, "but he that doeth the will of My Father....".

The point of the passage is we can't stop only with having belief...it takes believing and doing...both. It takes both.

In order to do God's will it is not enough to speak about the things of God, there must be consistency between what one preaches--what one says-- and what one does..."The kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power, 1Cor.4:20, "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." James 1:22.

there is no way around that one has to practice what one preaches to produce fruit which accords with one's words. Anyone who does not live in accordance with what he says ends up saying things which are contrary to faith.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 09, 2008

The point of the passage is we can't stop only with having belief...it takes believing and doing...both. It takes both.

It's only belief that brings one to salvation Lula. Not works. Our works have to be evident afterwards but they are not going to get us into heaven. Only belief is the requirement for salvation. Works are very important but are not going to save anyone. That's why many point to the thief on the cross as an example. You can see also in 1 Cor 3 where some will make it to heaven but all their works will burn up because they were not worthy of glorifying God. They did nothing. Philip told the Jailer...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Over and over we see these things.

In order to do God's will it is not enough to speak about the things of God, there must be consistency between what one preaches--what one says-- and what one does..."The kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power, 1Cor.4:20, "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." James 1:22.

yes, agree totally with all you said here. Our works are evidence of who we belong to.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 10, 2008

KFC POSTS:

It's only belief that brings one to salvation Lula.

It's your inclusion of the word "ONLY" that has you in contradiction to what Christ says in Matthew 7:21. This is what Luther taught and has become Protestant dogma, justification by faith alone (only), Sola Fides. We must not only believe in Him; we must love Him as well. Satan believed but he didn't love. Think about it.

quote]Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, LOrd, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

It is both true belief and love of God and neighbor. Love of God and neighbor is good works.

He that doth the will of My Father .... Love is doing the wll of our Father in Heaven...."If you love me you will keep my commandments." True belief is a state of mind, heart and soul, True Love is doing from the mind, heart and soul.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 10, 2008

quote]Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doth the will of my father who is in Heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."[/quote]

KFC POSTS:

Only belief is the requirement for salvation

KFC POSTS:

It's only belief that brings one to salvation Lula.

You are repeating Protestant oral tradition here.

It's your inclusion of the word "ONLY" that has you in contradiction to what Christ says in Matthew 7:21. You are repeating what Luther taught and for over 400 or so years has become Protestant dogma, justification by faith alone (only), Sola Fides. This is Luther's theology not Christ's.

We must not only believe in Him; we must love Him as well. Satan believed but he didn't love. Think about it.

It is both true belief and true love of God and neighbor. True Love of God and neighbor is good works.

"but he that doth the will of My Father" .... Love is doing the will of our Father in Heaven....Christ said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments." True belief is a state of mind, heart and soul, True Love is doing from the mind, heart and soul.

Cedarbird

on Apr 10, 2008

My problem with a lot of Catholics, and a lot of Christians, and my own self, is that we just HAVE to go to church on Sunday, and then the rest of the week is spent of the world.

[very 'disappointed' tone of voice]

Are you a Sunday Morning Christian, Jyth?

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 10, 2008

We must not only believe in Him; we must love Him as well. Satan believed but he didn't love. Think about it.

we've already been over this Lula. Belief is with heart, soul and mind.

You're repeating yourself here...and making me do so to remind you.

Forget Luther. Will ya? Go back and read Romans 10:9-10 which is what I outlined already. It's pretty clear. Believe with your heart and confess with your mouth. That's it.

The just shall live by faith....not by works, not by anything. Faith is the only requirement for salvation. Works are evidence of that salvation. We are saved to do good works....we are NOT saved by our good works.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 10, 2008

Lula posts:

It's your inclusion of the word "ONLY" that has you in contradiction to what Christ says in Matthew 7:21. You are repeating what Luther taught and for over 400 or so years has become Protestant dogma, justification by faith alone (only), Sola Fides. This is Luther's theology not Christ's.

KFC POSTS:

Forget Luther. Will ya? Go back and read Romans 10:9-10 which is what I outlined already. It's pretty clear. Believe with your heart and confess with your mouth. That's it.

KFC POSTS:

Faith is the only requirement for salvation.

You are the one who has to forget Luther or more specifically his doctrines...You tell me to read Romans 10 and then proceed to interpret Romans 10:9-10 strictly according to Luther's plan of salvation---by "faith alone". Interpeting this way is holding the Scriptures hostage, forcing them to furnish support for Luther's version. The notion that one is saved beyond all doubt with no effort beyond "believing" is straight out of Luther.

You say, "Faith is the only requirement for salvation. Believe with your heart and confess with your mouth. That's it." No, KFC, that's not it.....Faith is only the first PART OF what it takes to be saved. Faith is the beginning, the foundation and the root of salvation. The beginning becasue no one can be converted to God unless he recognizes Him as his supernatural end and aim. The foundation becasue upon faith all the other predisposing acts rests securely.

Here in Romans 10 St.Paul was teaching faith in Christ is saving faith. Faith in what else? Faith means accepting Jesus as Lord and submitting permanently to His rule..and to His teachings...the whole of Christ's truths...every one of them. Go back and see that Romans 6 has already shown us that this is a requirement which involves the whole of life. Faith also means firmly believing those revealed truths which elaborate the basic confession of faith in the Lord, in this case in particular, "that God raised Him from the dead". Believing in the Risen Christ is the root of the Christian creed becasue in and with Christ God has raised us to life to the life we now possess in faith, faith which hopes but does not yet see 8:24.

All of the following passages indicate that it takes more than believing for one's salvation.

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; He it is that loveth me. St.John 14:21. Love....is the fulfilling of the law Rom.13:10. He became, to all that obey Him, the cause of eternal salvation Heb. 5:9. "He who hath saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1St.Jn.2:4.

Keeping His commandments is doing something...it's good works of charity (love). Not keeping the commandments or breaking them is doing something as well...it's sinning. Does serious, deliberate sinning threaten one's salvation even if one believes?

lulapilgrim

on Apr 10, 2008

JYTHIER POSTS:

My problem with a lot of Catholics, and a lot of Christians, and my own self, is that we just HAVE to go to church on Sunday, and then the rest of the week is spent of the world.

Lula posts:

But having said that, isn't it also true, that in general, those who attend Mass or Church services on a regular basis are better armed to deal with the world, the flesh and the devil?

JYTHIER POSTS: Perhaps better armed, but that's no good if you're not willing to shoot. Or take the safety off.

St.Paul's Epistle to the Philippians chapter 3 has a lot to say about the Christian life. Every baptized Christian is called to holiness. I'm thinking of the song, Let there be (Christ's) peace on earth and let it begin with me...

One person at a time must strive for Christ's peace on earth beginning with those around us and then stretching out into society. We need to strive to struggle against the evil of the world in the incidents of everyday life and not be part of it. It's not an easy task, but God will give us the strength and necessary graces to do so.

One of the Christian vocations is sharing knowledge of Christ with the world. You did that. You shared information that your pastor had given you on Sunday about the different levels of Heaven with us here on JU.

One early Christian writer wrote: Everything that grows begins small. It is by constant and progressive feeding that it gradually grows big. So I say to you if you want to be a thorough-going Christian and I know you do, even though you find it difficult to conquer yourself or to keep climbing upwards with this poor body, ---then you will have to be very attentive to the minutest of details, for the holiness that our Lord demands of you is to be achieved by carrying out with love of God your work and your daily duties, and these will almost always consist of ordinary little things. J. Escriva, Friends of God 7

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 11, 2008

Keeping His commandments is doing something...it's good works of charity (love). Not keeping the commandments or breaking them is doing something as well...it's sinning. Does serious, deliberate sinning threaten one's salvation even if one believes?

Yes, it's doing something...but IT'S NOT earning us a spot in heaven. How do you put that with

"our righteousness is AS filthy rags?"

You're mixing the law with grace. This is legalism.

Jesus said that in order to get to heaven the people had to be MORE righteous than the Pharisees...who were considered to be quite righteous in their day.

How can that be asked the people? It CAN'T. The only way to secure a place in heaven is the righteousness of Christ. Our works, are as filthy rags to God.

Obeying his commandments is out of love. We obey him because we love him....not because we are earning anything. As children we showed our love to our parent's by obeying them. It was evidence of who we belonged to.

Faith + works=justification (legalism)

Faith=justification-works (antinomianism)

Faith=justification + works (Biblical)

You are expousing the exact opposite of biblical doctrine when you use works as a basis for going to heaven....it's no different than the Muslims or all the other cults you so despise. They may have diff doctrine but when you wipe away all the dross you are left with the three examples above.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 11, 2008

KFC, you have asserted three times now Luther's doctrine of justification by "faith only".

Only belief is the requirement for salvation

It's only belief that brings one to salvation Lula.

Faith is the only requirement for salvation.

I asked a question that specifically addresses your 3 time assertion...

Lula posts:

Does serious, deliberate sinning threaten one's salvation even if one believes?

So, before I rebut your #41 post, would you please answer yes or no and explain/support your answer?

Thanks.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 11, 2008

The answer is NO.

Once we have been justified we are justified. Our sinning, while being disobedient and not in favor with God has no bearing on our salvation. Nothing can separate us from God, not even our own sinful desires.

Paul said, where sin abounds grace abounds. Does that mean we should keep on sinning willfully? Heavens no was his reply.

After justification, comes sanctification and that's an ongoing work of God. So when one comes to Christ initially, it's not like he's all of a sudden a saint. It takes time as one gets to know his savior to be made more into his likeness. We grow spiritually just like one grows physically. Some at diff rates than others. We are constantly being sanctified until we die. We should be able to look back and see growth in our lives.

lulapilgrim

on Apr 11, 2008

Does serious, deliberate sinning threaten one's salvation even if one believes?

The answer is NO.

How about if one believes but dies with serious, deliberate sin...does he still get into Heaven?

If this is so, what does Apoc. 21:27 mean? "Nothing unclean (some versions have "defiled") shall enter it (Heaven)?

Did you know that Luther threw out the Book of Ecclesiasticus? Why? It contradicts his basic dogma: free and effortless salvation...

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Apr 11, 2008

How about if one believes but dies with serious, deliberate sin...does he still get into Heaven?

First of all......Peter talked about this. I've brought it up before. The answer is yes.

Second of all.....this is hypethetical. I usually hate these types of questions.

Third of all......a Christian (true one) is not usually going to be doing serious deliberate sin.....but admit yes, we are sinners and sinners do sin. It really depends on the maturity of the Christian as well. All Christians are sinners. Sinners will go to heaven but they are regenerate sinners.

If this is so, what does Apoc. 21:27 mean? "Nothing unclean (some versions have "defiled") shall enter it (Heaven)?

This is true. We are ALL unclean. We are ONLY made clean by the Blood of Jesus. God sees us washed in HIS blood. We are covered in his blood. Remember the Passover? Those who put the blood over their doors were safe? They didn't do anything to make them less of a sinner. They just were covered in HIS blood. That's the same with us. No diff.

So when God looks at us as naked in our human state, when we come to Christ we are covered in his blood that makes us clean. You may want to further your research by looking up scriptures that have to do with blood, nakedness, clean, etc.

Adam and Eve are a picture of this. While sinners, God covered them....it wasn't them. It was God. An animal's blood had to be shed for this restoration. They did nothing. God did all the work. That's what Paul was getting at when he said, "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Also remember....."there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood." That's how sins are paid for. Not by works. Not by baptism. But by blood. And the examples are abounding in scripture.

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