Kicking God out of Schools

Reaping the Whirlwind.

Published on May 31, 2008 By lulapilgrim In Religion

I just finished posting a comment on another blog about how we are reaping the whirlwind after kicking God out of public schools. Someone asked what I meant by saying "we are reaping the whirlwind."

In 1962, the Supreme Court prohibited the saying of this simple non-denominational prayer in public schools:

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon thee, and we beg thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country."

In 1963, the Supreme Court banned Bible teachings in public schools.

In 1980, the Supreme Court ordered public schools to remove the Ten Commandments from student view.

Many of you may know that an atheist, Michael Newdow, continues to sue for the words "under God" to be stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance. I read somewhere rather recently there is a movement to get the words referring to God removed from our currency.

It made me think of this email that has been going around now for quite some time and for all I know may have been already posted by someone else on JU.

Anyway, since it goes directly to what I meant by saying we are reaping the whirlwind and is great food for thought and great discussion, I thought it would be timely to post it here.

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at...

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20 /99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01
El Cajon , California 3/22/01 and
Virginia Tech, Virginia 4/16/07?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
She didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK..

------------------

Then,
Someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Holy Bible that says
"Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt not steal", and "love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehaved because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore..

------------------

Then someone said
teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said,
Let's allow our daughters to have abortions if they want, and give them birth control pills, and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, well, they're going to do it anyway, so that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some school board member said,
since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said,
Right...it doesn't matter what anybody does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good.

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.

And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex...And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said,
it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience,
why they don 't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Comments (Page 2)

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Have you ever really considered the power of prayer?

Yes, I pray in Hebrew.

It works. With prayer, we cannot fail.

In my experience prayer gives about the same results as sitting in my sofa.

Maybe you are praying to a servant, not a master?

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Well, ya, but have you noticed it's only the Christian religion that the Supreme Court has banned?

No, I haven't. How did they do that?

I have heard stories about Muslims being allowed to pray in American state schools, but I hadn't heard anything about the Suprene Court permitting them to do so.

Personally, I have nothing against teaching religion in school in principle. I just see three problems with this current discussion:

1. US law specifically prohibits the teaching of religion in state schools and I do NOT advocate the breaking of a law or the changing of a law to benefit a certain group that are supposed to enjoy the same rights and limits as all other groups or the open rebellion against the spirit of the supreme law if such is advocated.

2. I can see that this particular brand of "Christianity" would not teach morality as much as ban science from the class room.

3. I can see that this particular brand of "Christianity" if not causes than at least creates an environment in which immorality thrives.

From what I can see beinging G-d back into schools under the proposed terms would transform America into a lawless, immoral, and backwards country.

And all the "Christians" have to offer in terms of explanation is that the law is wrong, that the immorality simply won't happen (even though in the Bible Belt it does), and that evolution is wrong because idiots can't understand it (as evidenced by the fact that they use the term "random chance" to explain a process that isn't and the terms "micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution" as if evolution saw such a distinction).

Tova7

on Jun 02, 2008

Only Muslim kids get to eat the cheese pizza. So if my kid doesn't like pepperoni he can't say...cheese only please, because they only make enough for the Muslim kids.

How is that keeping religion out of schools?

We've never made kosher meals for the Jewish kids.

I don't think the school should be cooking separate meals for ANYONE...they can bring their lunches if they don't like what's on the menu.

Scotteh

on Jun 02, 2008

Thats because Jewish people didn't go around cutting off peoples heads and blowing up embassays if you offended them or didn't accomdate their religion.

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

In Columbus Ohio right now, the public school system is required to cook separate meals for the Muslim kids. For example, if they make peperoni pizza, they have to make a certain number of cheese only pizza for the Muslim kids.

Only Muslim kids get to eat the cheese pizza. So if my kid doesn't like pepperoni he can't say...cheese only please, because they only make enough for the Muslim kids.

How is that keeping religion out of schools?

It isn't. I consider that a plain violation of the constitutional requirement to keep religion and state separate.

We've never made kosher meals for the Jewish kids.

Despite the fact that such kosher meals would also be permitted for Muslims according to Sharia.

I don't think the school should be cooking separate meals for ANYONE...they can bring their lunches if they don't like what's on the menu.

I agree, to an extent. I think schools should offer meat and vegetarian meals.

I don't keep kosher but I eat vegetarian if the only meat option is pork. I don't see that Muslims are above making that choice!

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Thats because Jewish people didn't go around cutting off peoples heads and blowing up embassays if you offended them or didn't accomdate their religion.

Muslims don't do that either.

I see this more as a case of "Vorauseilender Gehorsam". (There is only a German definition for the term for ironic reasons.)

"Vorauseilender Gehorsam" means the voluntary submission to the perceived wishes or commands of an individual or a group. In this case Islamic fundamentalists were understood as representing Islam and (presumably liberal) politicians are trying to do what they want as quickly as possible. The same mechanism showed in Germany in the 1930s. Sometimes the Nazi party themselves had to undo some quick changes!

There is a reason why so many American politicians (usually liberals) keep talking to crazy groups like Cair and pretend that submitting to insane fundamentalists has something to do with respecting other cultures.

Something similar also happened in Sweden (I think) and Britain (if memory serves) with piggy banks and Teddy pigs. Social activists (liberal such) tried to outlaw anything pig-related because it might offend Muslims. It took Muslim groups weeks to repair the damage and explain to stupid Britons that pigs do NOT offend Muslims and that any action taken against Teddy pigs is complete nonsense.

However, Muslim fundamentalists used the opportunity to support the pig ban and paint the non-fundamentalist organisations as un-Islamic.

Orthodox (and some non-orthodox) Jews are known not to buy products that are not certified kosher. Most Muslims do the same with halal foods. I eat in kosher restaurants when there is one available and usually buy products with a halal certificate since kosher certs don't really exist in Ireland.

Just the other day the Pakistani working in the shop next to my office reminded me that the turkey they sold was not certified halal and whether I really wanted it anyway. He also makes sure that the cheese or turkey I get for my sandwiches doesn't get mixed up with ham on the meat bar. (I wouldn't want pieces of ham in my turkey.)

The Arab butcher next to my house signals me when I walk past his shop when the halal (turkey) salami comes in every two weeks.

The only kosher supermarket in Dublin is far from my house.

Scotteh

on Jun 02, 2008

Yes the Piggy Bank fiasco i remember.

I agree entirely that the majority of mulsims living in the west are quite tolerant of ignorance towards their beliefs and traditions, most just want to get on with it, so to speak.

Yet i think many whom live in countries were islamic fundamentalisim is rife, do not, i'll indicate the country wide marches and protests in Sudan calling for the head (quite litterally) of a primary school teacher who named a teddy bear Mohammed.

My opinion on the issue is that Religion has some great morales to teach, but those same morales can be taught without the rubbish and tradition that surrounds our first attempt at explaining world.

I'm all for someone telling a child in school that you should treat others as you'd want yourself to be treated, but i'd not like for that child to be told he'll burn in hell for eternity if he doesn't.

lulapilgrim

on Jun 02, 2008

I consider that a plain violation of the constitutional requirement to keep religion and state separate.

Leauki,

Please enlighten me. Where exactly in the US Constition is the requirement to keep religion and state separate?

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jun 02, 2008

We compared Bible Belt states to states in New England and all other states. Turns out that teen pregnancy rates, which we accepted as signs of immorality for the purpose of the discussion are highest in Bible Belt states (and California) and lowest in states with lowe church attendance (and Utah).

Now see I don't agree that the critera for a state to be immoral is to look at pregnancy rates. That's absurd. To me all that means is they're not advocating birth control and handing it out like candy like the do in the NE states.

I knew two girls in HS....one got pregnant soon after dating her first boyfriend. The other girl was having sex with whoever and whenever but was protected. So who was the immoral one?

According to your criteria it would be the girl who had one boyfriend and got pregnant. What about all the girls having sex and NOT getting pregnant? They're NOT immoral?

That's absurd.

Hate to disappoint you. It's the same god.

And I hate to disappoint you but they are NOT the same God. For instance do the Muslims believe Jesus is God? Do they believe Jesus was involved in the creation of the world? Jesus is a manifestation of the OT God Jehovah.

The Muslim God is the Moon God that goes way back to the days of Nimrod. That's why they have a cresent as their symbol. Many think or assume they are the same God but they are not. Remember Ishamael's mother was an Egyptian and Sarai was a Hebrew. Their sons went two diff ways.

SetarcosNous

on Jun 02, 2008

I knew two girls in HS....one got pregnant soon after dating her first boyfriend. The other girl was having sex with whoever and whenever but was protected. So who was the immoral one?
According to your criteria it would be the girl who had one boyfriend and got pregnant. What about all the girls having sex and NOT getting pregnant? They're NOT immoral?

Well that really depends on what you think is more immoral, having fun that harms no one but oneself (and even the likelihood of that can be reduced substantially), or bringing a child that you cannot care for properly into this world.

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Please enlighten me. Where exactly in the US Constition is the requirement to keep religion and state separate?

Oh, please, that is getting embarassing.

It's the first amendment.

"The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Now see I don't agree that the critera for a state to be immoral is to look at pregnancy rates. That's absurd.

Lula proposed that type of measurement. I just found it handy because I happen to believe that teen pregnancies are bad.

The Muslims don't believe that Jesus is G-d, but neither do the Jews. Following that argument the G-d of the Jews is the G-d of the Muslims, but your god is a different one.

Neither Jews nor Muslims believe that Jesus was involved in the creation of the world.

And neither Jews nor Muslims believe that Jesus is a manifestation of G-d (although Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, which is perhaps a type of manifestation in some sense).

"Jehova" is a misreading of a Hebrew text of the name of G-d with vowel dots for the word "adonai". "Jehova" is not and never has been His name. "Jehova" is NOT and never has been the god of the "OT".

If you want to argue that Muslims believe in a different god from the Christian god because they don't believe that Jesus was the son of that god, be my guest, and I won't stop you. But realise that Jews believe in that same G-d (Who was not the father of Jesus); which makes the Jewish and the Islamic G-d the same and yours a different one.

The Muslim God is the Moon God that goes way back to the days of Nimrod. That's why they have a crescent as their symbol. Many think or assume they are the same God but they are not. Remember Ishmael's mother was an Egyptian and Sarai was a Hebrew. Their sons went two diff ways.

Allah is not a "moon god". There were several Semitic moon gods, I think, but Elohim/Allah was not one of them. The Muslim symbol of the crescent goes back to the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. The crescent was the symbol of Byzantium (because of some battle, I don't know, ask an historian) and, from emperor Constantine to the fall of Constantinople, the symbol of the Eastern Roman Empire, a symbol of Christianity. Muslims have used the crescent since then (they saw themselves as the heirs of the empire). The original "symbol" of Islam is the colour green.

So you are telling me that there is one god who has a son, Jesus, and one god, the one the Muslims believe in, who does not. And you are telling me that the god with the crescent symbol is a moon god.

Well, figure that. The G-d Jews believe in doesn't have a son named Jesus, and the god with the crescent symbol is the Christian god. (The only reason Muslims use the crescent is because they believe their god is the same as that Christian "moon god".)

You might want to be more careful with declaring some god a "moon god" based on a symbol. Could turn out it's your own god!

Ishmaels' mother was an Egyptian, but his father was Abraham. And Abraham did NOT teach one of his children to worship the moon, no matter how Egyptian his mother was. The covenant between Abraham and G-d applies to Isaac and Ishmael.

But why you think it applies to you, even though you believe in a god who does not have the same attributes as the god of Isaac and Ishmael, and who is apparently a "moon god" (given that he had, at a time, a crescent symbol), is beyond a simple explanation.

If the moon symbol proves that a god is a moon god, the Muslims shouldn't have stolen the crescent symbol from the Christians; that's all I can say about that particular unlucky event.

El was the Semitic supreme god and, according to Jewish legends, the only real god. I remember an Akkadian (I think) sun god named "Shamash" ("shemesh" is the Hebrew word for "sun"). I don't know much about moon gods.

I don't know who told you that Islam's Allah is a moon god, but he got his info about where the cescent comes from wrong, so I wouldn't believe the rest of his story either, especially when he uses the crescent symbol as an argument.

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Well that really depends on what you think is more immoral, having fun that harms no one but oneself (and even the likelihood of that can be reduced substantially),

Not immoral.

or bringing a child that you cannot care for properly into this world.

Immoral.

The first is between the two and G-d. The second is between the two and another human being (the child).

Debts to G-d can (and will) be forgiven. Debts to other human beings must be paid (or better yet, avoided).

A moral society is one that owes debts only to G-d, not to each other.

Texas Wahine

on Jun 02, 2008

Leauki

on Jun 02, 2008

Not sure I get that...

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