Yes I'm telling you that.

The God the Jews believe in were expecting the Messiah to come. They just didn't accept Jesus as the one who did come. The first Christians remember were Jews.

The Christian's God and the Jewish God is one and the same. The only diff is the Jews did not accept the manifestation of God via Jesus when he came. But we can see thru the OT prophets that they will finally accept him and mourn him when he returns and understand he was indeed the Messiah they rejected. They will see his hands and feet and their eyes will be open.

Jehovah God was never referred to as a moon god nor is he the one represented with a cresent. Only the god of the Muslims has the cresent attached to him.

immorality is not defined by having a child out of wedlock. It could mean, they made a mistake or they had a weak moment...but just because one gets pregnant doesn't make her immoral.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
im·mor·al Audio Help /ɪˈmɔrəl, ɪˈmɒr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-mawr-uhl, i-mor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.
2. licentious or lascivious.


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[Origin: 1650–60; im-2 + moral]

—Related forms
im·mor·al·ly, adverb


—Synonyms bad, wicked, dissolute, dissipated, profligate. Immoral, abandoned, depraved describe one who makes no attempt to curb self-indulgence. Immoral, referring to conduct, applies to one who acts contrary to or does not obey or conform to standards of morality; it may also mean licentious and perhaps dissipated. Abandoned, referring to condition, applies to one hopelessly, and usually passively, sunk in wickedness and unrestrained appetites. Depraved, referring to character, applies to one who voluntarily seeks evil and viciousness. Immoral, amoral, nonmoral, and unmoral are sometimes confused with one another. Immoral means not moral and connotes evil or licentious behavior. Amoral, nonmoral, and unmoral, virtually synonymous although the first is by far the most common form, mean utterly lacking in morals (either good or bad), neither moral nor immoral. However, since, in some contexts, there is a stigma implicit in a complete lack of morals, being amoral, nonmoral, or unmoral is sometimes considered just as reprehensible as being immoral.

oh my gosh. You've got to be kidding. Everyone knows that Allah is a moon god. Even National Geographic way back did an article on this. There's a ton of evidence out there about this moon god. Here's a statement from a Yeshua Communications Network site.

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm

The origins of the myth of Allah the Moon-God stem from the works of a few modern Christian writers (more accurately propagandists) and have widely been debunked.

"One of the favourite arguments of the Christian missionaries over many years had been that Allah of the Qur'an was in fact a pagan Arab "Moon-god" from pre-Islamic times. The seeds of this argument were sown by the work of the Danish scholar Ditlef Nielsen, who divided the Semitic deities into a triad of Father-Moon, Mother-Sun and Son-Venus. His ideas (esp., triadic hypothesis) were used uncritically by later scholars who came to excavate many sites in the Near East and consequently assigned astral significance to the deities that they had found. Since 1991 Ditlef Nielsen's views were given a new and unexpected twist by the Christian polemicist Robert Morey. In a series of pamphlets, books and radio programs, he claimed that "Allah" of the Qur'an was nothing but the pagan Arab "Moon-god". To support his views, he presented evidences from the Near East which can be seen in "Appendix C: The Moon God and Archeology" from his book The Islamic Invasion: Confronting The World's Fastest-Growing Religion and it was subsequently reprinted with minor changes as a booklet called The Moon-God Allah In The Archeology Of The Middle East.^[2] It can justifiably be said that this book lies at the heart of missionary propaganda against Islam today. The popularity of Morey's ideas was given a new breath of life by another Christian polemicist Jack T. Chick, who drew a fictionalised racially stereotyped story entitled "Allah Had No Son"."

See http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html for one.

A more telling quote is directly from the Quran 41:37 which states "ADORE NOT THE SUN AND THE MOON BUT ADORE ALLAH WHO CREATED THEM if it is Him ye wish to serve."

I am going to guess that you have never read the Quran, perhaps never been inside a Mosque.

Ok, again:

There is no god named "Jehova". The vowels for "Jehova" come from another word which Jews pronounce instead of G-d's name. The vowel dots of that word are therefor added to the name of G-d in Jewish prayer books. For G-d's actual name, the vowels E-O-A _do not make sense_.

Get that into your head, if you want to understand your own G-d!

Second, as I said, the crescent was a _CHRISTIAN SYMBOL_ before the Muslims took Constantinople.

IF the god of the Muslims and the god of the Christians are two separate gods (which is impossible for several reasons, as I explained), it was the CHRISTIAN god with whom the crescent was associated FIRST.

If you tell me that you believe in a god named "Jehova" who has a son named Jesus, I will tell you that I believe in the G-d of Abraham (and Isaac and Ishmael), who is ONE, does NOT have any sons (or daughters), and whose name is not and never has been "Jehova".

Your god Jehova, the god the crescent was associated with before the Muslims took it, is, as you said, probably some other dude.

Oh, that's where it's from. I must admit I was stunned when she mentioned a moon god. I know my Semitic pantheon fairly well, but couldn't remember a "moon god".

I figured that perhaps moon gods have never been very important and are therefore usually unknown (and not worshipped as supreme deity as KFC would have it). I decided to test that hypothesis and asked my (Hindu) flat mate if he knew a Hindu moon god. He said no, but the sun god is important. (He later found a Hindu moon god in Wikipedia.)

It seems unlikely that moon gods make it into the first league of gods. The moon is just something that people don't worship that much, probably because it has to do with the night and most religious people do not think of themselves of creatures of the night (although Christians might think of Muslims that way, but what Paul says about Peter says more about Paul than about Peter).




The Quran is the last place KFC would use to learn about Islam.

After all, there are so many people who just make up very convenient lies about Islam, which are much easier to swallow. And KFC doesn't have a problem with that, because the Christian principle of honesty does apparently not apply to statements about Islam.



Well, I must admit I have never been inside a mosque either. I wanted to go to a mosque in Haifa with fellow students (Arab such), but they usually went home for the weekend and there was thus never an opportunity on Friday.

But I did read the Quran (an English "interpretation") and I did learn SOME little Arabic to understand it better.

So no, KFC, I am not kidding. I am just a lot smarter than some and more honest than others. The lot who told you about the Allah moon god theory are either dumb or dishonest. I doubt they were Muslims.

I am secure enough in my faith. I can study other faiths and I don't need people to tell me lies about other faiths to keep me in mine!

And I don't make statements about other faiths without first learning about them (which is why you rarely find me make statements about Hinduism, for example; I just don't know enough about Hinduism).

I have read the Quran, the Tanakh, the Christian Bible (King James and the original German Luther translation), and, just to make it a little bit interesting, I was (luckily) forced to learn Roman and Greek legends in school (I was on a Latin school) and can therefore see where modern western Christianity gets many of its most Christian principles from (Greek legends... ha!).

Now I learn about Christianity from KFC. It's not the Christianity I have known before, admittedly, but it's fascinating.

For example, I have learned that a god associated with a crescent is a "moon god". And I just happened to know, from Greek and Roman history, that the crescent was the symbol of Byzantium, the capital of the (Christian) Eastern Roman Empire. Hence, according to KFC, the Christian god is a "moon god".

And I have learned about the Christian principle of honesty, which apparently allows making up things about the G-d of Islam whenever necessary or convenient. Plus one is allowed to use those lies in a condescending way. There is no need to repent.

Interesting Christianity, I have learned about here.

Since KFC doesn't know anything about Islam (while I do), I will ignore what she says about it.

And I think I should also ignore what she says about Christianity, for obvious reasons.

A "Christian" who believes that Abraham (Abraham!) would teach his oldest son to worship the moon... Unbelievable!

Take it up with Lula. We just used teen pregnancies as a rough indicator to mesaure immorality.

I agree with you about the issue.

However, a society in which teen pregnancy is rampant seems to feature lots of teenagers with "weak moments", which I don't think is a good sign.

Call me old-fashioned or reactionary if you like, but if I see a society with lots of unprepared mothers (and hopefully fathers who didn't run away!) I think that there is something wrong with that society.

What's wrong with the Bible Belt, KFC?

Lula posts:

God through His revealed religion of Christianity teaches moral absolutes of right from wrong, good from evil. Atheistic/secular humanism teaches that man can make up his own mind about what is right and what is wrong and what is good and what is evil.

These kinds of crimes weren't happening in schools throughout the US before the 1960s when prayer, God and Christian principles were kicked out of public (givernment) educational system.

We must ask ourselves why the radical change in societal behavior. In order to understand what happened to precipitate such widespread radical change in the way of life and in the educational system we must examine the cultural and sexual reforms that were accelerated in the 1960s as a result of these Supreme Court decisions.

I see it as a major philosophical shift in moral attitudes and mores reshaped society into a secular humanist culture in which faith in Almighty God shifted to faith in man, science and education. Standards, constraints and morality were still necessary, --- but according the US SUpreme Court decision, by taking the Ten Commandments out of school, not htose imposed by God or by the Holy Bible. Secular humanist educators supplied their own and a bias toward secular humanism developed within the broad structure of education.

Secular humanist educators believe the proper role for schools is to change, create or clarify student's values especially in the area of sexuality. Using values clarification and situational ethics, they teach children to discard the old, traditional values from family and church they have come to school with and find and try new ones.

How many of you know that Planned Parenthood guidelines for classroom sex instruction insist that instruction on human sexuality must be morally neutral and studied without reference to moral absolutes?

KFC POSTS: #7

Leauki posts: #9

I believe there is but one God..there can be but one God because God, being Supreme and Infinite cannot have an equal.

Leauki posts:

There is but one God. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. While we may all believe in the one true God our worship of Him is where the differences lie.

God created all mankind in His image and likeness so that they may know love and serve Him and be with Him in eternity. "All" includes Muslims.

Muslims worship the one God (they call Allah) according to the Qur'anic teachings of Islam, a religious attitude developed by self-named Muhammed in 610.

The followers of Muhammad's Qu'ranic Islam read his words and imitate his actions which leads to an expression of faith (violence and bloodshed) quite different from Christianity's expression of faith. Islam is a mixture of truth and error. Muslims in their belief of Islam submit to God as far as believing He is the One God; He is the Creator; He is most forgiving and merciful, etc. This part is God's revealed truth. All the rest---having to do with Muhammad and his false Qur'anic teachings is error and false doctrine.

The bigger question that faith and right reason beckons us to ask are: Is the one God pleased with the worship of Muslims or do they worship falsely and in vain? Does God doesn't really care how He's worshipped or whether or not He's worshipped at all. I'd say, of course He does.

Now, to bring this back to the focus of my article, does Almighty God care whether or not He's invited into schools by prayer?

Yes.




That is correct. So you do not, in fact, believe that Allah and the Christian god are two different entities? And KFC spoke for herself, but not you?




I have problems thinking of a perfect and forgiving being who cares about minutiae.

I doubt whether He does. Remember the Torah was given to the Jews so the Jews follow its laws, not as instructions to all of humanity. Christianity says that the new covenant applies to all humanity, but that's really a big change.

Muhammed's Islam (and you refer to it correctly as "Quranic Islam" since the word "Islam" merely means "submission [to G-d]"), like Judaism, does not claim that it is the only acceptable way to worship.

Of the Abrahamic religions only Christianity has traditionally made such claims.




No. He does not. He loves everyone equally and certainly would not refuse to help kids in a school who don't pray because they are not allowed to.

And I doubt whether he would support de-secularisation, given how His children cannot agree which way to pray is the right one and constantly fight over it.

How else would you teach it without teaching one religion or another?

It's up to the parents to teach their children the morality of sexual intercourse, not the government. If the parents refuse to do it and demand that state schools do it instead, something is wrong with society, and it's not the school system.

If I had kids (and I don't), I would absolutely send them to Hebrew school (think "Sunday school") in a conservative or liberal synagogue so that they learn what _I_ think is the correct morality.

But I certainly wouldn't want them to be taught somebody else's religion's values in a state school.

And if somebody managed to convince the government to teach, say, Muslim family values in state schools, including the perhaps bad treatment of women that seems to be so common in modern so-called "Islam", I would, if I can afford it, send my kids to a public school affiliated with a religion more to my liking or no religion at all.

(I chose "Islam" here not because I dislike it but because it is perhaps for my American Christian readers the best example of an imposed religion they would not want to see in state schools.)

"Planned Parenthood" is a good thing to teach in state schools. Whether it should be applied is a question I don't want the government to decide.

I would want my kids to know about condoms and the pill and how to use them.

But I would not want my kids to be taught by the government whether it is moral to use them or not.

And I certainly would not want them to be taught that it is wrong to use condoms INSTEAD of being taught how to use them.

QFT.

But then, they're going to say, "You two are just saying that because you haven't spawned yet! Your opinion doesn't count until you breed!"

you're forgetting something Leauki....his mother was Egyptian. He was sent away with his mother. His geneology is mentioned in scripture and associated with Arab lands. He did not worship the same as Isaac. They went separate ways starting when Ishmael was a teenager.

In fact it says in Gen 21:21 that Ismael "dwelt in the wilderness of Paran and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt."

I'd have to say that Abraham's influence was very little on Ishmael. This wilderness of Paran was the NE part of the Sinai penisula.

As far as the crescent being associated with the Eastern Church I have never heard of that. If that's true, which seems hard to believe, but if so...why is the crescent moon always in modern times associated with Islam? I mean isn't proof in the pudding?

Two things Leauki

1. I know quite a bit about Islam. I try to use former Muslim sources and I have at least two good books on the subject of Islam from two former Muslims. The Dean of Students at my son's Christian College (largest Christian College in the world) is Ergun Caner. Ever hear of him? Do a google search. Big Christian now but was a big Muslim then. Has been rejected by his father and family for converting to Christianity.

2. What are the obvious reasons? Not obvious to me.   

Gee... this is getting ennoying. I told you. The connection to Islam is due to the Turks conquering Constantinople.




Ishmael was 14 when he left. At the time and in the region that was not exactly "teenager" in the sense of today. He was a young man. Abraham taught him everything until he was that grown man. And G-d promised He would look after him afterwards and make him into a great nation.

Ishmael also returned for the burial of Abraham.

If you think Ishmael started worshipping the moon after growing up in Abraham's household, you are ignoring that G-d Himself said the covenant was for both Ishmael and Isaac (hence both children were circumcised) and that there is is historic evidence that many Arabs practiced a monotheistic faith based on Abraham's teachings.

Ishmael was also visited by an angel in the desert, which is hardly something G-d would do for a moon-worshipper.

It was also Sarah who wanted to get rid of Ishmael, not Abraham. Abraham only agreed to send Ishmael away when G-d promised that He would protect him.

Where is a shred of evidence that Ishmael or his descendants gave up the faith of Abraham?




No. You don't. You didn't even know where the symbol of Islam (the crescent) came from and that the god of Islam is not a "moon god".

You simply don't know much about Islam.

If somebody claimed that the Christian god is a wood god and didn't know that the cross is a Christian symbol because Jesus was (allegedly) crucified, you would hardly accept that that somebody would "know quite a bit about Christianity".



You didn't know that the crescent was once a Christian symbol and you believe that Abraham's son worshipped the moon. You are NOT the type of person I would ask to teach me Christianity.

Judging from your systematic way of learning false facts about Islam and your dismissal of Abraham's ability to educate, I cannot be sure that what you know about Christianity is so reliable.

Perhaps the Ex-Muslims you speak of didn't know that much about Islamn either? Or they lied to you? It was easy to debunk what you said here about Islam.