Kicking God out of Schools

Reaping the Whirlwind.

Published on May 31, 2008 By lulapilgrim In Religion

I just finished posting a comment on another blog about how we are reaping the whirlwind after kicking God out of public schools. Someone asked what I meant by saying "we are reaping the whirlwind."

In 1962, the Supreme Court prohibited the saying of this simple non-denominational prayer in public schools:

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon thee, and we beg thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country."

In 1963, the Supreme Court banned Bible teachings in public schools.

In 1980, the Supreme Court ordered public schools to remove the Ten Commandments from student view.

Many of you may know that an atheist, Michael Newdow, continues to sue for the words "under God" to be stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance. I read somewhere rather recently there is a movement to get the words referring to God removed from our currency.

It made me think of this email that has been going around now for quite some time and for all I know may have been already posted by someone else on JU.

Anyway, since it goes directly to what I meant by saying we are reaping the whirlwind and is great food for thought and great discussion, I thought it would be timely to post it here.

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at...

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20 /99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01
El Cajon , California 3/22/01 and
Virginia Tech, Virginia 4/16/07?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
She didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK..

------------------

Then,
Someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Holy Bible that says
"Thou shalt not kill", "Thou shalt not steal", and "love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehaved because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore..

------------------

Then someone said
teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said,
Let's allow our daughters to have abortions if they want, and give them birth control pills, and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, well, they're going to do it anyway, so that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some school board member said,
since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said,
Right...it doesn't matter what anybody does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good.

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.

And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex...And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said,
it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience,
why they don 't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Comments (Page 4)

Larry Kuperman

on Jun 03, 2008

Ergun Mehmet Caner and his brother Emir Fethi Caner, the co-authors of Unveiling Islam, have been widely criticized for their hate speech by Christians and Muslims alike. Here is a quotation from an article published at the Mainstream Baptist website:

"Ethics Daily has published a story about the fuel that Southern Baptist professor Ergun Caner is pouring on the fire of Middle East conflict. Elie Haddad, provost of Arab Baptist Theological Seminary in Beirut, demonstrated genuine Christian maturity in his response:

"Having 90 refugees at our seminary in Mansourieh, 760 refugees in our school in west Beirut, thousands upon thousands of refugees all around us living in miserable conditions, our fuel, medical, food, and hygiene supplies getting scarce, and having no prospect of a quick resolution to the problem, I really am not in a frame of mind to respond to such remarks," Haddad said in an e-mail to EthicsDaily.com."

If Ergun Caner is the author of one of the two books on Islam that you say that you have read, then it is no wonder that you think the way the way that you do.

If someone asked you the best way to learn about Christianity, would you direct them to read a book by an ex-Christian? Particuarly by an ex-Christian who was known for criticizing humanitarian efforts towards Christians?

By the way, Ergun Caner's video entitled "Ergun Caner gets tasered" begins with him saying "I am a total Nimrod." See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz3v8RIcaYA

That is not the quality that I would look for in someone who was going to teach my children.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jun 03, 2008

I told you. The connection to Islam is due to the Turks conquering Constantinople.

don't just tell me, show me some historical data backing this up. So you're saying that the Turks took the Christian symbol (which I've not seen anywhere) of the crescent moon as their own? I can tell you there is no Christian symbol of the moon in scripture.

If you think Ishmael started worshipping the moon after growing up in Abraham's household, you are ignoring that G-d Himself said the covenant was for both Ishmael and Isaac (hence both children were circumcised) and that there is is historic evidence that many Arabs practiced a monotheistic faith based on Abraham's teachings.

Why not? Think Solomon the son of David. Son of King David...no less turned his head following the gods of his many wives. He took wives outside of the faith and they influenced him and turned him away from God. Ishmael married an Egyptian. This went against God. This was not something God wanted. Egypt was the enemy of Israel. God warned his people to not go into Egypt which represented the world. That's why careful care was taken to find a wife for Isaac. His future wife would have the same God as his father Abraham. So a servant was sent to a far country in search of her. We don't see this with Ishmael.

Besides all that.... you say Ishmael was part of the covenant? No.... he was not. You're getting wrong information Leauki. Yes God blessed him because he came from the loins of Abraham. Yes, he was circumcised but so weren't all servants and household members in Abraham's home.

"God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed and you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlsting covenant and with his seed after him.

And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget (Arabs) and I will make him a great nation. BUT my covenant will I establish with Isaac which Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year. Gen 17:19-21"

also if you go to Gen 22 you'd read in the famous sacrificing Isaac chapter:

God said to Abraham "take now your son your only son Isaac whom you love and get you into the land of Moriah and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountins which I will tell you."

why did God call Isaac Abraham's only son?

You didn't know that the crescent was once a Christian symbol and you believe that Abraham's son worshipped the moon. You are NOT the type of person

No I never heard that and will search that one out. Sounds bizzare to me. I never said Abraham's son worshipped the moon. I said Islam's God Allah is the Moon God that went way back before Mohammed. You can do a search yourself and look this up and they DO HAVE a crescent on their mosques so again....they have their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

It's kind of weird you're telling me they have no connection to a moon god of old yet they have half moons on their temples even as we speak.

Perhaps the Ex-Muslims you speak of didn't know that much about Islamn either? Or they lied to you? It was easy to debunk what you said here about Islam.

No that's not it. Not easy at all. I've just shown you using scripture that what you believe to be true is NOT true afterall is it?

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jun 03, 2008

Larry,

I've seen Caner in person. He's a comic so to speak. He uses humor when he speaks. He's an attraction for the kids. They never sleep when he speaks. Of course he's going to have his critics. Who doesn't? Sit down and listen to him first before you judge him.

Caner isn't actually my favorite person as far as personality is concerned and I don't always agree with him theologically. He tends to be brutally honest for one thing which isn't all that bad but with not with much tact and pretty much just says it like it is. Some really like that and others wince a bit liie me although I too tend to be brutally honest as well.

BTW I do not believe there is such a thing as an Ex-Christian. It's just not something true Christianity teaches. It's not a biblical concept at all. You can be an ex-Catholic, an ex-Mormon or ex-JW and yes, I would consider what they have to say as they were insiders and would know more than someone who was not an insider.

lulapilgrim

on Jun 03, 2008

BTW I do not believe there is such a thing as an Ex-Christian.

Well..yes and no...an ex Christian would be someone who was baptized in the Christian faith and then apostazies from the faith. No, as in once one is baptized into the faith, that baptism can never be lost or erased.

Locamama

on Jun 03, 2008

Back to the original article, God cannot be kicked out of anywhere. God is still present whether it is "permitted" or not. That being said I don't think anyone has the right to force their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs on anyone else in school. Teach your kids religion at home or at church or while your driving them to school. Leave it out of the schools. If it matters that much to you that your kids pray in school, spend the money to send your kids to a private religous school.

lulapilgrim

on Jun 03, 2008

Back to the original article, God cannot be kicked out of anywhere. God is still present whether it is "permitted" or not.

So, what would you describe these US Supreme Court decisions I cited including the one which banned student led prayer at football games did, if they weren't kicking God out of school? School children before 1962 were allowed to acknowledge God's presence by prayer...after the decision they couldn't any longer.

And why not ALL prayer banned across the board? In some public schools, Muslim students are allowed their private prayer time, in some cases they are given a special room, including the prayer mats! Why do you suppose only Christianity is forbidden?

Teach your kids religion at home or at church or while your driving them to school.

Yes, I agree 100%...but that's my point about what's happening in schools now that they teach under the banner of atheistic/secular humanism.

Once they are dropped off at the school doors, bye bye parent's values. Instead schools disrespect and undermine parents who take seriously their responsibility to intruct their children. The school leads them to wholly different attitudes and beliefs than they had been or are being given by their parents.

I'm a graduate of a superb public education during the 50s and early 60s. Mine was the last generation whose educational philosophy respected the rights of parents...whereas today schools usurp parental rights. I firmly believe the difference between then and now is becasue we were given ethical and moral standards which the school honored and confirmed.

Both history and statistical evidence show that there was no horrific student violence toward other students and teachers, no policie presence in schools, no epidemic of students infected with venereal diseases. Then, our schools weren't plagued with drug use, teenage promiscuity and pregnancies. Students weren't stressed out, depressed or committing suicide.

Any objective person can only conclude that the staggeringly high numbers and instances of these pathologies in our student population are causalities of the programs brought in by atheist/secular humanists who gained control of our public education system in the mid 1960s.

Locamama

on Jun 03, 2008

Any objective person can only conclude that the staggeringly high numbers and instances of these pathologies in our student population are causalities of the programs brought in by atheist/secular humanists who gained control of our public education system in the mid 1960s.

I don't believe that there is cause and effect here. This is just your view. Life wasn't perfect in the 50's and 60's. The imperfections were just more hidden then. It seems like every generation thinks the next generation is the worst.

Basmas

on Jun 04, 2008

Isn't there a big difference between allowing people to pray away from the rest of the school and organising what would amount to a school wide prayer session?

Tell me- are christains actually banned from praying, quietly and to themselves, during school?

If not how can you say that christianty has been banned?

Leauki

on Jun 04, 2008

"17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."

Perhaps G-d did change the "everlasting covenant" to apply only to Isaac. Or there was a different covenant specifically for Isaac and His descendants.

You can do a search yourself and look this up and they DO HAVE a crescent on their mosques so again....they have their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

And most churches have a cross on their roof; but Jesus is not a wood god.

Incidentally, the crescent is part of the coat of arms of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem.

I've just shown you using scripture that what you believe to be true is NOT true afterall is it?

I have not seen you use scripture to show that Allah (or Elohim as Jews call Him) is a moon god.

Leauki

on Jun 04, 2008

Then, our schools weren't plagued with drug use, teenage promiscuity and pregnancies.

Of course not. It was different times.

Exotic drugs were harder to get and nobody talked about sex. Teen pregnancies were hidden and nobody admitted them. The "Christian principle" of "honesty" took care of those problems.

As usual in discussions about everyday life, Locamama hits the nail on the head.

Leauki

on Jun 04, 2008

As well as hastily arranged (and illegal) abortions.

(I think I fixed the brackets correctly?)

Indeed.

I speak from experience. My Baptist parents forced me to abort my teen pregnancy and never lost a minute's sleep over it.

You see, and THAT (what they did) is what I would consider immoral.

(Sorry, LW. I do not want to insult your parents.)

lulapilgrim

on Jun 04, 2008

Teen pregnancies were hidden and nobody admitted them. The "Christian principle" of "honesty" took care of those problems.

Up until the 60s, and before birth control was widely used, for the most part, those teens who became pregnant got married.

Leauki

on Jun 04, 2008

Up until the 60s, and before birth control was widely used, for the most part, those teens who became pregnant got married.

And you know that, because...?

But let's assume it is true.

Great, a large number of married couples who didn't want to be married.

So you are arguing now that teen pregnancies are not actually a problem?

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jun 04, 2008

I'm a graduate of a superb public education during the 50s and early 60s. Mine was the last generation whose educational philosophy respected the rights of parents...whereas today schools usurp parental rights. I firmly believe the difference between then and now is becasue we were given ethical and moral standards which the school honored and confirmed.

This is true. Talk to any older person who lived then or before then and they are horrified at what's happening to today's kids.

I don't believe that there is cause and effect here.

why not? It's pretty easy to observe.

Perhaps G-d did change the "everlasting covenant" to apply only to Isaac. Or there was a different covenant specifically for Isaac and His descendants.

no he didn't change. Show me where Ishmael was part of this promise. Go back to Genesis and read say from Chap 17 to Chap 25 and show me. Proof's on you.

I have not seen you use scripture to show that Allah (or Elohim as Jews call Him) is a moon god.

True mostly because Allah is not in scripture. But you can see by using scripture that Ishmael went towards the Arab lands married to pagan wives and Isaac did not. Ishamel was not part of the history of the Hebrew people so anything outside of that realm was considered pagan. Everything in scripture points to all gods outside of the Jewish God were pagan gods.

So you are arguing now that teen pregnancies are not actually a problem?

Teen pregnancies have happened in every culture. I don't think anyone is denying this. Before the 60's pretty much it was fairly rare but yes did happen. But it was not acceptable like it is today. And as Lula and LW said they either got married (most) or went looking for that rare abortion.

The diff between then and now is the pill and abortions and the acceptance of sex outside of marriage. I don't think anyone would dare argue against the fact that we are a more sexually active culture today.

The first thing we do before we take part in immorality is to get rid of anything that might stop us. In this case, getting God out of our community our lives and our churches is the first step. No standards or morality means we can make up own own morality.

When my son and new d-i-l stood up and exchanged their purity rings for wedding rings, you wouldn't believe how many older folks came up after and told my son how they also waited until marriage back then because it was more the norm than today. Back then it was expected, today it's gasp! What's wrong with them?

SanChonino

on Jun 04, 2008

Before the 60's pretty much it was fairly rare but yes did happen.

Um . . . nope. Less rare than now.

I'm sure Leauki will be fascinated by this graph.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!