of course.  Let's just not abide by what Revelation 20 says. It's right there.   How convenient.  The OT Prophets speak of this time period and here in Revelation God mentions it 6 times thru the pen of John!!!  For emphasis like he always does when HE wants us to "get it." 

How can I argue with you?  YOUR church has rejected it. End of story.  All I can say to you is..."did God really say?"  said the serpent to Eve. 

This is exactly where you and I differ.  When you listen to men over God's revealed word.  Psalm 118:8. 

I've read almost all the post up to half way through page 20.  Lula, you break the golden rule of interpretation nearly 90% of the time 'When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word, at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.'  This golden rule applies not just to Scripture intrepretation but the translation of any language.

Regarding Peter as pope. It never mentions Peter as pope and the first Fifteen bishops of the Jerusalem Congregation were all Jewish (a note to something that was previously posted).  James was the first leader of the Jerusalem Congregation and apparently Peter never contested this or he didn't realize he was a pope.  In fact, until the defeat of Israel by the Romans in 135CE Jerusalem was the headquarters of the Messianic faith.  Peter was involved but he was not in any way the big cheese or 'pope' position.

Speaking of Jerusalem: 'If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget what its suppose to do; let my tongue cleave to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem above the head of my joy.'  That's Psalms 137:5-6.  That does not say rome that does not say vatican city that says Jerusalem.  G-D will never FORGET JERUSALEM!

Lula, you said something about Jews can't keep the mosasic law or judiasm and be 'christians' or something to that nature.  Just disregard Acts 21:20 then and what I'm about to say ' And hearing, they glorified the Lord, and said to him, You see, brother, how many myriads there are of Jews that have believed, and ALL ARE ZEALOUS ONES OF THE LAW'.  Also, don't continue to read any further past verse 20 because you'll see Paul make a sacrifice! WHAT!  Paul makes a sacrifice after Jesus died! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!!!  Take a Nazarite vow, what!  That's the 'old' down away with Testament, what are these guys doing?

The early Believers were hardcore Jews.  Probably knew Scripture better than most religious Jews back then and I bet they knew Scripture better then most Believers now as well.

After looking carefully at these verses of Apoc. 20:1-6, I agree with Pope Pius XII. That there will be a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ physically present on earth in Jerusalem is NOT TAUGHT OR EVEN IMPLIED IN THIS VISION or any other vision for that matter.

 It's almost blasphemous to picture Christ on an earthly throne doing some kind of day-to-day-work for 1,000 years!  Christ's Millennial kingdom is the Chruch of which St.Paul teaches there is "no Jew or Gentile...."  Christ's Millennial kingdom is universal made up of all nations. Christ's Millennial kingdom is ecclesiastical.  Christ reigns and rules His kingdom from heaven..after His Second Coming in Judgment (not for an earthly rule), the Millennial kingdom becomes New Jeruslem, an eternal, heavenly spiritual reality. It makes no sense to plant Christ on a physical throne in earthly Jerusalem. No, no, no. no. Can't be.

lula posts:

The question is not what is written in God's revealed Word...we can all read. The question is what does Apoc. 20:1-6 really mean?

Yes, you are right ....you and I differ.....

You are reading Apoc. 20:1-6 and listening to men as to what it means....Marv and Rapturists, Dispensationalists, Pre-Millennialists,  Christian Zionists and so on.   

I'm reading Apoc. 20:1-6 and listening to the Church as to what it means. In this case Pope Pius XII, who, as St. Peter's  successor, was given the teaching mission of the Church by Christ. St.Matt. 28:18-20.  

From the pen of St.John, I know that the teaching authority in the Chruch has Divine protection, "These things I have spoken to you while yet dwelling with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your mind whatever I have said to you.....when the Advocate has come, whom I will send from the father,, He will bear witness concerning me, becasue from the beginning you are with me." 14:25-26, 15:26-27.

Christ made it quite clear when He said, "He who heareth you, heareth Me." Confirming that the teaching authority of the Chruch is the infallible voice of Christian truth St.Paul wrote, "I write these things to thee....that thou may know how to conduct thyself in the House of God, which is the Chruch of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of truth. 1Tim. 3:15.

No. You never did.

You not knowing or not recognising certain features of Judaism doesn't count.

Judaism still has priests and I have pointed this out time and time again.

Judaism still reveres the Temple and the remaining wall in Jerusalem is Judaism's holiest place.

And the Torah remains Judaism's holy scripture.

So please, go ahead and point out actual differences between what you call "Old Testament Judaism" and "modern Judaism", but make sure those are differences that Jews actually acknowledge and not just stuff you make up based on ignorance of Judaism.

When did Moses speak of Jesus?

On the mountain top is referring to the temple which was built on mount Moriah.  This is why it is called the mountain of the L-RD’s house. The temple, or the mountain on which it was reared, would be the object which would express the public worship of the TRUE LIVING G-D.  That this would be elevated higher than all other hills, or mountains, meaning that the worship of the TRUE LIVING G-D would become an object so conspicuous as to be seen by all nations (the Jews were to be a light to ALL NATION something that refutes what you said that G-D came to one people.  Which is a twist.  G-D did come to one people BUT HE wanted to us that people as a LIGHT TO ALL NATIONS). The LIGHT would be SO BRIGHT that all nations would forsake other objects and places of worship, being attracted by the glory of the worship of the TRUE LIVING G-D. 

It says nothing about all nations following to the 'CC'.  It says nothing about vatcian or rome in FACT it says JERUSALEM!  Jerusalem would be the EPIC CENTER FOR THIS ALL!  Not rome, not vatican. 

What would they be teaching there? 'church' doctrine?  RCC doctrine so this would be a cachehism?  No it says 'כִּי מִצִּיּוֹן תֵּצֵא תוֹרָה, וּדְבַר-יְהוָה מִירוּשָׁלִָם.'  Zion break forth the TORAH (which is usually translated into law and this IS A VERY POOR translation for TORAH IS INSTRUCTION) the word (dabar is a play on word and power here for it is coming from G-D) of G-D.

Did G-D change? G-D's religion has been going on throughout all Scriptures.  Scripture will and should be reflective of itself.  In other words, all Scripture is a mirror reflection of itself and G-D.

Exactly.

"Torah" derives from a root Yud Resh He. The G stem is "yarah".

"Yarah" today means "he shot" but originally meant "he threw" from "he cast (a die)" and ultimately, in long-forgotten time, "he decided".

From "liroth" = "to decide" derives the H (causative) stem "lehoroth" = "he made someone decide" = "he instructed".

And "torah" derives thence and is the means by which this happens, an "instruction".

(This follows the same mechanism as "yashav" = "he sat" -> "lehoshiv" = "to seat" -> "toshav" = "inhabitant".)

G-d always was open for all nations, not just the people of Israel. I believe G-d send prophets to many nations, for example Zoroaster to the Persians (who heeded his words).

When king Cyrus liberated Jerusalem, king Cyrus and his people were already blessed by G-d and on the right path, despite not being the "chosen people". Israel was chosen as a light to the nations. The Persians were chosen for another task. And even today Americans are chosen for something else still.

LEAUKI POSTS 287

What you mean by the word "as" here? That religion you are describing here is Old Testament Judaism.....so, what is OT Judaism other than a religion?

lula posts 296

lula POSTS:  

LEAUKI 304

As to the differences....

OT Judaism is the holy religion that God gave through Moses. All the forms of the modern religion of Judaism that arose after 70AD are of men who reject Christ.

The principles as set forth in the Torah (Pentateuch) make plain the fact that OT Judaism of God is of an authoritative, priestly, sacrificial, character.

Leviticus is a liturgical Book which tells in detail the the duties of the Aaronic priests and the sacrifices they were to offer to God for the people of Israel.

You claim there are Jewish priests today...OK, if so, those Jewish priests have no authority as did the Aaronic priesthood who were keepers of God's Laws and determiners of their application. In fact, no one speaks with Torah authority today in either the Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, or Reconstructionist divisions of modern day Jewry.

Another difference is that the Jews of today have Rabbis, not priests and that's becasue the sacrificing priesthood ended with the Temple.   

The Jews of the Old Mosaic Covenant believed "that atonement comes through blood", which is "the life of the flesh" Lev. 7:11,  In the Mosaic law "forgiveness" comes primarily through the shedding of the blood of animals.

That's why Rightwinger back at the beginning of this thread asked, "what do Jews do now to atone for their sins?" And your answer was "We fast".

You're going to have to make up your mind Lula.  which is it?   Marv has nothing to do with what Revelation 20 tells us about the Millennium.  So now instead of inserting Luther and Calvin you're putting in Marv as my latest guru?  hmmmm smooth.  In other words you can't stick with the topic so you have to go on the attack again.  Every single time I get you in a corner you do this.  Every single time.    It really doesn't matter tho does it because I'm just not listening to the RCC and that's all that matters. 

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise...NOT.  You just blasted me for listening to Marv, rapturists (not sure who they are) Zionists etc and here you are admitting you're listening to man.  I've ONLY brought up scripture to you here.   This is very hypocritical Lula. 

 A thousand years is a thousand years Lula.  It's not symbolic.  It's to be taken literally.  That's why it's mentioned six times.  For emphasis.  God is clear.  It will be a thousand years. 

You see this type of repetition many times in scripture.  Take Genesis 1:27 for example:

"So God created man in his own image in the image of God He created he him; male and female created he them." 

He mentions this three times in one verse for emphasis knowing quite well down the road this would come into question.  Did a God really create mankind?  So you see you can't take it literally in Genesis and not in Revelation. There's absolutely no reason not to. 

You may not even know this (maybe you do) but you're actually folliwing an African Donatist named Tyconius who developed a view of the Millennium that the RCC followed.  When he came to Rev 20 he interpreted the thousand years in nonliteral terms and understood the period as referring to the church age (like you do), the time betwen the first and second comings.  Augustine following Tyconius followed suit with this interpretation and for centuries to come this was the viewpoint.  But remember this was well before (4th Century) before the first thousand years after Christ had finished. 

The much earlier position (the early church before 4th century) unquestionably held to the teaching of an earthly, historical reign of peace that was to follow the defeat of Antichrist and the physical resurrection of the saints but precede both the judgment and the new creation. 

You suggested your teacher Marv's website. and guess what...you and he are mouthing the same endtime fable--Dispensationalism....PreMillennialism --after Our Lord's Second Coming, you and he predict a future literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.   

Lula, I believed this for years and years way before I met Marv (2 1/2 yrs ago).  My belief in the Millennium has NOTHING to do with Marv.  Nothing.  The fact that he believes as I do (as well as centuries of Christians) just means we're reading the same book.  You just admitted you're listening to a Pope who told you differently.  Marv and I believe in the 1,000 year reign of Christ because that's exactly what it says...SIX TIMES in one Chapter. 

I'll take the book anyday over man's opinion.   "Did God really say?" 

I've been studying the fall of Eve this past Mother's Day as I was invited to give a talk at a woman's luncheon.  I taught about the craftiness of Satan's deception in how he worked Eve.  He operates still today as an angel of light working in deception and disguise (even as a Pope). 

When dealing with the enemy who doesn't deal in truth be careful to not take anything at face value.  Let God's words be your authority...not man's.  As soon as Satan tricked her into questioning God it was only a matter of time before she went her own independent way. 

When we shade God's truth just a little bit it can have a disastrous impact in our lives. 

Eve taught us that talking with the devil and walking with the Lord do NOT go hand in hand.  That's what I believe you're trying to do. 

When did I do this?  I told Leauki he would love Marv's CD on "Israel Under Seige" and "Zion's Fire" but I don't recall saying anything here about going to Marv's website for information.  I don't even go on that myself because I see him weekly and I get "Zion's Fire." 

Marv, your endtime "lastest guru"!! Hmmm...interesting....your words, not mine.

Teasing aside, I have stuck with the topic..which for the most part has concerned the endtimes.

Attack?  C'mon?  Your belief in a literal 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ is in common with other Dispensationalists, Pre-Milleniallists, Christian Zionists, and Rapturists.

It's either correct or it isn't. The Magesterium of the Catholic Church has rejected that belief system and that's good enough for me. And just to show that I am sticking with this topic, I brought up the Church's teaching on this very subject ... in post 157 I wrote:

 Post 157

KFC posts:

Yes, and Pope Pius XII is a successor to St. Peter to whom Christ gave the keys to the very Messianic kingdom of God you believe is a future earthly kingdom Christ will reign over for a 1,000 years.  

Remember St. Matt. 16:18-19?  "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock, I will build My Church, and the powers of Hell will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven."

Here it is clear, crystal clear, that when Christ said this to St.Peter, He was setting up His Messianic kingdom and gave St.Peter the keys..it is the Church that will be in existance for a 1,000 year Millennium, that is, the Church age...which will be a long period of time that will last until Christ's Second Coming when the Messianic kingdom will be glorified in the eternal New Heavens and New earth.

Now, as a successor to St.Peter, Pope Pius XII holds the keys to the Messianic kingdom (the Church) and he made a "binding" decision when he officially rejected the belief system known as Millennarianism as a system of interpretation that "cannot be taught safely." 

You wrote in post 248: 

To which I replied:

Where is any of this in Scripture? ................................Save your time...it isn't there.

When Christ returns Scripture tells us it will be on the last day of this earth to judge the living and the dead; not to set up His earthly kingdom.

Jesus Christ died and lives again. Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords now seated at the right hand of the Father. He possesses all power in Heaven and on earth. He is far above all rule, authority, power and dominion for the Father has put "all things under His feet". Christ is Lord over the cosmos and of history.

Since the Ascension, God's plan has entered into its fulfillment. Christ the Lord has already set up His earthly kingdom, the Church. As Lord, Christ is Eternal Head of the Church, which is His Body. Christ dwells on earth in His Church. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN....CHRIST DWELLS ON EARTH IN HIS CHURCH. Christ by the Holy Spirit exercises His authority over His Church.

Christ's kingdom is already present on earth, the seed, and in mystery, the beginning of the eternal heavenly Kingdom, the glorious Messianic New Jerusalem which according to the prophets will bring all men justice, love and peace. Is. 11:9.

We are in "the last days". The Church, Christ's kingdom is already endowed with a sanctity that is real but imperfect. 1Cor. 10:11. This reign is under attack by the evil powers, even though they've been defeated by Christ's Passover. 2Thess. 2:7. According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness to His Gospel, but a time marked by distress and trial of evil which does not spare the Chruch and ushers in the struggles of the endtimes.

KFC, it is a time of waiting, of watching and of praying, not taking Scripture and looking at events in the Middle East and the European Union and making endtime predictions about a literal 1,000 year physical reign of Christ.  

The antichrist deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made about this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of Millenarianism.