There is no "Old Covenant".

G-d is eternal and so are His promises.

 

Says you.

The Law and Covenant of Moses as opposed to the New Covenant of Jesus Christ which in part fulfilled and in part superceded it.

Man cannot become God, however God can become man and He did in the Divine Person of Jesus Christ Who is Eternal. 

I also say that G-d is eternal and that His word is forever.

You believe in a god that isn't the god of Israel. That's fine with me. Judaism does not prescribe what non-Jews must believe. (It doesn't even prescribe what Jews must believe.)

You have your god and I have mine.

But my god is capable of protecting my people despite the fact that there are so few of us and so many of you. Our numbers make us weak but our god makes us strong.

You will never understand that, Lula.

 

Still waiting for world peace, the return of all Jews to Israel and the Third Temple...

My Messiah will make all these things come about.

I can only tell you what Jews believe. But I don't assume that I can tell you what your god wants.

 

If Jesus is your god, he cannot be my messiah.

Your god isn't my god and your messiah is not my messiah.

 

 

 

The Jews were the only specially selected people in the world with whom the Lord God made a Covenant a contract so to speak in the days before the coming of the Messias. The coveneant was a bilateral contract, in the sens ethat the reward God promised would go to the elect IF they were faithful to His commands and prophecies. God told Moses to tell the Jews,

"IF therefore you will hear My voice and keep My covenant, you shall be My pecular possession above all people for all the earth is mine and you shall be to Me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation...." Exodus 19:5-6.

Leauki,

Did you notice that little word "IF" at the beginning? The covenant was conditional. God kept His part of the Covenant...but the Jews did not keep theirs.  

 

 

First you write:

and then this:

Hmmm..is this the same God?

This is according to Maimonades.

The Messias Christ brought peace...spiritual peace. Jewry thinks in the physical and so they entirely miss this.

Modern Judaism may not prescribe what Jews must believe.  However, Biblical Judaism through Moses most definitey taught God's ordinances (commandments) of what you must believe and do and not do. Starting with the first...thou shalt believe I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. The Ten Commandments are still in force and will be until the end of time.

 

We are faithful to His commandments.

Who are you to say that we aren't? You, Lula, despite what you seem to believe, are NOT G-d.

We hear his voice, we keep his covenant. What follows from that is a matter of belief.

We wouldn't have got our land back if G-d hadn't ended our exile.

 

Who was commenting on Biblical prophecies.

 

Spiritual X is not X.

Do you promise your children a Playstation for Christmas and then tell them that they got a "spiritual Playstation"? Would you explain to them that your religion says that promises can be broken as long as one uses the word "spiritual"?

You see, in my religion, promises are never broken, especially not by G-d Himself.

 

Judaism never prescribed what Jews must believe. The commandments are about what one must and must not do.

 

The first commandments does not say "Thou shalt believe...", it says "I am [name of G-d], thy god".

The second commandment is about loyalty to one's own god. None of the commandments say anything about what one must believe.

It's impossible to dictate belief.

You totally and absolutely don't understand how Judaism works and has always worked. It is a tribal religion. Every tribe, city or nation had its god and loyalty to one's own people was measured by loyalty to the tribal god. (Try explaining how this is true about "modern" Judaism but not about bronze age Judaism!)

Incidentally, commandment number three prohibits what you are doing: using G-d's name falsely. You pretend to be speaking for G-d. That's precisely what commandment three prohibits.

 

 

 

This is true Lula but the Prince of Peace will eventually bring in physical peace as well.  That's what the Jews are waiting for. 

He will be Leauki if you let him.  But I understand what you're saying because Lula is misrepresenting God here when it comes to the Jews so I know what you mean. 

This is quite good Leauki and very biblical.  Are you familiar with the story of Gideon in the book of Judges? 

NO IT DIDN'T.  God BUILT A SECOND TEMPLE (as he did the first) AFTER SOLOMON!  You're not making any sense.  Jesus worshipped in the Temple.  He partook of the Passover EVERY YEAR in the temple.  Would Jesus (as God) have done this if what you say is true?  Didn't Jesus himself say "a house divided against itself would fall?"  If God the father didn't approve then why would the Son (who is united totally with the father) have gone against Him...especially when it was all about "the father's will" not his own?  You're all mixed up Lula.  Not making any sense.   Read the end of Matthew 23. 

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killed the prophets and stonest them which are sent to you, how often would I have gathered your children together even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not.  Behold your house is left to you desolate.  For I say to you.  you sahll not see me again untill you shall say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord. " 

Their house was left to them desolate because they rejected Him as they did the prophets before him. He was thinking about Zechariah 12:10 when this prophecy will one day come to pass when the Jews will finally recognize Him for who He is. 

most certainly can!~

First of all he wouldn't have TWO books written by Him in scripture plus many Proverbs and Psalms ascribed to him if he wasn't right with God.  Who else has written scripture that was not right with God? 

Solomon pursued fulfillment thru indulgences, achievements, possessions, fame and wealth.  He came to understand all failed to bring enduring satisfaction. 

At the end of his book he wrote this:

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments for this is the whole duty of man.  For God shall bring every work into judgment with every secret thing, wheter it be good or wheter it be evil."  Ecc 12:13-14

this is not true Leauki.  Keeping the whole law was impossible.  The whole reason for the law was to show God's heart.  God knew how hard it would be to keep it.  That's why the sacrificial system was put in place. 

The whole reason for the law  and sacrificial system was to drive us back to him.  Ever since sin entered the picture it put a wedge between man and God.  He instituted the law and the sacrificial system to bridge the gap between a Holy God and sinful man.  God is so Holy and so pure, there is no place for sin in his presence.  Anyone who drew near to God or his throne was on his face.  Daniel, Isaiah, John, Peter,  etc. 

Remember what Isaiah the great prophet said?   

"and I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne high and lifted up and his train filled the temple........then said I, Woe is me!  for I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips for mine eyes have seen the King the Lord of hosts.  Then flew one of the seraphims to me having a live coal in his hand which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar; and he laid it upon my mouth and said Lo, this has touched your lips and your iniquity is taken away and your sin purged."  Chapter 6.

That's why Moses wrote that there would come a prophet that we would listen to one day that would be like him.  Jesus was the perfect unblemished lamb who bridged the gap between us and God.  Our righteousness (like Isaiah's and all the rest of the prophets) are as filthy rags and we can't go before the king dressed like that.  So Christ came and became the righteousness that we were not for us.  It's his blood that purifies us just like that coal purified Isaiah before the Lord.  So by believing in the one and only genuine sacrifice can God let us into His presence one day.  Without it we stand naked before him. 

I didn't say we keep the law all the time (which is impossible, as you say), but that we are faithful.

A thief can be forgiven and can still be faithful the the law itself.

Maybe when we become not faithful, G-d allows evil godless people to punish us. And when we are faithful He protects us. It's a common thought.

 

So how many gods are there? How many different ways can you make one god conform to what you (that's "you" in the general sense) want him to be?

I don't know. And I don't care. To me that simply isn't important.

 

I don't know. Most bronze age tribes had a god that was basically like they wanted him to be.

Or you can see it the other way around: each god helped its own tribe.

Or you can look at it the monotheistic way: only one of those gods really existed and he looked after his tribe.

I guess the confusing part is that so many people chose one of those bronze age gods as their own and try to make Him what He wasn't originally. And suddenly a god worshipped by small nation of shepherds in Israel becomes this anti-Semitic being that Romans speak for.

 

 

Sometimes He does do this, but it's more of a discipline of love than a punishment of anger.  Like a father does to a child he loves.  A good father disciplines his child like it says in Proverbs "spare the rod, spoil the child."  The rod of correction is meant to drive the foolishness out of the child.  Sometimes God uses, as you said, godless people to do so.  He did this in the Assyrians and called them a tool of his discipline aimed at Israel when they were carried away into exile.  Later he used the Babylonians to do the same thing to the Southern Kingdom.  But not before he repeatedly warned them of this thru the prophets.  Jeremiah is called the weeping prophet because he spent his whole life warning God's people of the discipline they were facing if they didn't repent and change their idolatrous ways. 

One genuine and many many counterfeits. 

 

Leauki

(Scratching my head), your use of the small "g" here seems a bit odd.

LEAUKI POSTS:

Again, small "g" god of Israel ????

I don't believe in a small "g" god or in any small "g" gods.

I believe in the one God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 

The dogmatic expression of belief in ONE God is the first part of Moses' call upon Israel to believe and to do things holy in the sight of God. This proclamation which My Lord Jesus Christ called "a commandment" in St.Mark 12:29, is an affirmation of belief that the God of Israel is Adonai, Who is Absolute, Uncaused, One Eternal God to be feared, loved, honored and obeyed, a belief that is entirely in harmony with the Catholic concept of God.  

INFIDEL POSTS:  

KFC POSTS:

This is the best answer.

 

KFC,

 

The Messias the Christ the Savior has already come. Christ the Messias the Savior is not coming again. Been here, done that. The Apostles taught that at the end of the world, Christ comes again in glory to Judge the living and the dead...from there it's off to eternal life or eternal death.

You say, The Prince of Peace (Christ) will eventually bring in physical peace?  "Eventually"????  

The OT prophets Ezekiel and Isaias prophecied the peace of Christ as well as His Eternal New Covenant of Peace....both have been fulfilled at Christ's First Coming.

St.Luke 2:11-15

11 For, this day, is born to you a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord, in the city of David. 12 And this shall be a sign unto you. You shall find the infant wrapped in swaddling clothes, and laid in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God, and saying: 14 Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will. 15 And it came to pass, after the angels departed from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another: Let us go over to Bethlehem, and let us see this word that is come to pass, which the Lord hath shewed to us.

The birth of the new-born Child means peace...Jesus is the Prince of Peace. Peace includes all God's saving blessings. It is an effect of the Covenant God made with Isreal renewed in Jesus. Jesus Himself is this Peace...the Jews must accept Jesus.

Peace means reconciliation; perfect joy. The message Jesus preaches is the Gospel of peace...again Jesus Himself is this Paeace. Peace is given to men of good will because God has shown them His favor and they are the objects of His good pleasure and it was Jesus who assures us of this.

The Angels praised the new-born child as Messias-King, Prince of Peace and the Savior.  Go to 19:38. The Angels song is related to the people who accomplanied Jesus on His entry into Jerusalem at the beginning of Holy Week. They said, "Blessed by the King who is coming in the name of the Lord. Peace in Heaven and glory on high."  We know His entry into Jerusalem where His death and glorification would bring His work of salvation to an end. The peace of Heaven would be communicated to men after that. The peace that began with Jesus' birth was fully completed at His death and glorification.

Christ's peace is the cause and effect of every kind of peace. Any peace on earth not based on this Divine peace would be vain and misleading.   

  

It's English grammar.

Small "god" = a god, whether existing or not, with name unspecified, used for comparisons

Big "G-d" = stands for a name of a specific god




Small "g" is the correct usage when comparing gods.

It's impossible to understand the bronze age religion of Judaism without understanding the environment in which it originated. Back then every tribe or city had its own god. Without understanding that, Judaism doesn't make sense.

And everything that you criticise in modern Judaism is ultimately based on that truth. Judaism was and is a tribal religion. Its fundamentals haven't changed. The features of modern Judaism that you claim differentiate it from what you imagine "Old Testament Judaism" was like are really those bronze age features that made Judaism what it is, then and today.

 

You believe that "Old Testament Judaism" had lots of features of modern Christianity. But the truth is that Christianity and Judaism have different histories. Christianity never had to convince itself that there is only one god. Christianity took that truth from Judaism. And this is why Christians don't understand the competitive environment that Judaism is based on. Christianity is not tribal.

But you obviously don't care how the religion of Moses works and what environment Abraham and Isaac lived in.

You believe in your own god and you claim it is the god of Abraham.

But unless your god is the god of Israel, your god isn't the god of Abraham.

Unless you see the people of Israel as special, you have no connection with the god of Israel.

You could just as well pray to Melqart, the god of Tyre and claim that Melqart is the only god.





I think it's an attempt to answer, not a "best" answer.

KFC's answers implies that there was discussion about other gods when she made up her mind. She weighed the options and decided for the real one, dismissing the false gods. The reason, following that answer, for KFC's faith in the god of Israel is that the other gods are false gods. She did not decide FOR G-d, she decided AGAINST false gods. It's like settling.

I prefer my answer, which was



I pray to the one god of Israel, regardless of whether other gods exist or not. It's a special relationship and, more importantly, it is a relationship.

I know KFC is a family person and that her husband is a great man.

But she does not love him because other men are not real or because she came to the conclusion that there is something wrong with all other men. She loves him because of who he is and regardless of who anybody else is, I am sure.

This is, I think what one's relationship with G-d should be. It's not about settling for the necessary for rational reasons. It's choosing to worship G-d regardless of any rational reasons.

Even if G-d didn't exist or was just one of many gods, I would still worship Him. I wouldn't care. It's about tribal loyalty. It has a strong element of "my tribe, right or wrong". To believe in the god of Israel means to believe in Israel. Otherwise that god could be any god with no differentiator except that some people believe that he is greater than other gods whereas those other gods also have believers who think that their god is greater than other gods.

That's why I don't care about other gods. It has nothing to do with whether they exist or not.

And that is the attitude you will find all over the Hebrew Bible. That's why G-d is described as a "jealous" god. It's not because He is actually "jealous" in the way a human might be, it's because our relationship with Him is like a relationship between individuals. We don't love G-d because the other gods don't exist. That would be logical and require no faith at all.

Lula adopted a god and has no love for his people.

But G-d does.

And if the god of Christianity doesn't have the features of the god of Israel, the god of Christianity could just as well be Zeus.

Yepp, that's what we are still waiting for.