The Hebrew God  YHWH of what we call the OT is the same God of the NT.  Jesus is God in the flesh. 

Jesus told a story (Matt 21:33) about a land owner (God) who planted a vineyard (Jerusalem).  After he planted this and hedged it and dug a winepress  and a tower (safety) he rented it out to men (Jews) who would care for it.  Then he left to a far country (heaven). 

When it was time for the fruit to draw near he sent his servants (prophets) to the caretakers that he might receive the fruit of it.  The caretakers beat and killed the servants.  So the owner again sent more servants (more prophets) more than the first and they did likewise.  He finally sent his own son (Jesus) to them saying they will revere my son.  But when the caretakers saw the son they said "this is the heir" let us kill him and take his inheritance.   So they killed him as well.  The end of the story is that the owner would eventually come to the vineyard and the question was put to the Jews, "what will He do?" 

The point of the story Jesus was telling them was that the Kingdom of God would be taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles but it's a continuation from the Jewish Scriptures to the Christian NT Scriptures.  The whole book is one continuous story.  One of the points in the book of Ruth illustrates that God's redeptive plan extends beyond the Jews to also the Gentiles.  Think about it...Gentile blood runs thru the Savior's line. 

The diff between me and Lula here is I believe God is NOT done with the Jews and He will turn back to them keeping his promises to Abraham and the Nation as the OT Prophets saw.  Lula believes it's a done deal and Israel is history.  The Jews can come to Christ as individuals (and they have) but God is now centered in Rome instead of Israel which is not a biblical concept in the least and is very very subjective on the RCC's part. 

The difference between you and Lula is that you accepted G-d with His history and added to it and she re-invented Him.

As I said, her god could just as well be Zeus. He doesn't have any of the features of the god of Israel.

While I don't believe in Jesus as a "son" of G-d or even the Messiah, I do recognise the god of Israel in the god that you, KFC, tell me about here.

The name of G-d already gives you a hint. The four letter-word consists of three letters that are special in the Hebrew alphabet. Why would the god we are talking about have a name that only makes special sense in Hebrew, the language of the people of Israel, unless that god is and remains the god of Israel?

(I assume this might be the reason why Muslims don't use the name of G-d. Arabic has four special letters, not just those three.)

Yes I do say so because that's what scripture says.  The peace you're talking about here promised is not given universally to men who possess good will toward God but individually to men who are the recipients of His favor and grace.

We are not living in a world of Peace.  Look around you.  Turn on the news.  Only the Prince of Peace (the Messiah for the Jews) can usher in physical peace for the whole world to enjoy.  Here's a sampling:

"They shall build houses and inhabit them and they shall plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them.  They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for as the days of a tree are the days of my people and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.  They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord and their offspring with them.....The wolf and the lamb shall feed together and the lion shall eat straw like a bull and dust shall be the serpent's meat.  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain says the Lord."  Isa 65:21-25

"and it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before me says the Lord."  Isa 66:23

"and the Lord shall be king over all the earth in that day shall there be one Lord and his name one...and men shall dwell in it and there shall be NO MORE UTTER DESTRUCTION; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited...and it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem (not happened yet) shall even go up from year to year to worship the King the Lord of hosts and to keep the feast of tabernacles."  Zech 14:9,11,16

This is when he ushers in totally physical peace on earth. This has NOT happened yet.  Satan right now is the Prince of the World but not for long.  He's been given a long leash but Christ, in his timing, will come back and claim what is now rightfully his.   It has nothing to do with his first coming.  His first coming brought peace spiritually in the hearts and minds of his elect but has nothing to do with a worldwide physical peace that we will dwell in someday.  We are living in the times of the Gentiles so that the promise to Abraham might be fulfilled completely that "all nations will be blessed." 

I remember hearing Oprah Winfry say one time that she stopped believing in God when she heard about the scriptures describing him as a jealous God.  Why in the world would she worship a jealous deity?  She lacked understanding.

When we get jealous, it's because we want what another has.  We are jealous OF someone.  It's self-motivated. Selfish

When God says He's jealous, it's because He's jealous FOR us.  Not of us.  He wants the best FOR us.  It's other-motivated.   Divine. 

OK,..so this is your system. But using your system, you should have capitalized the "G" in "God of Israel" when you wrote:

leauki

I always capitalize when referring to the one true God of Judaism and Christianity.

No. I was making a comparison. I referred to god X as opposed to god Y without adding judgement as to which one is true or better or more real.

So do I. But when I say "god of Israel" , the word "god" does not refer to the true god but to any god. Only the "of Israel" makes that god the same as "G-d".

Lower-case "god of Israel" roughly corresponds to Biblical "eloheinu" ("our god", NOT "our G-d") and upper-case "G-d" roughly corresponds to the Biblical name.

I don't think it's correct to use the upper-case English version which stands for the name in conjunction with "of" anything. The name already addresses the entity in question.

KFC posts:

The main difference between you and I is interpretation of Scripture.

I believe God is not done with the Jews. Based on the fact that God wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth proves that He is not done with the Jews or anyone else for that matter. Through the merits of Christ's Passion and Death, this, right here and now, the present time is the age of God's Grace for all mankind.

Even though God rejected parts of the OLd Mosaic covenant, the Temple, its sacrifices, etc., God has not rejected His people. So yes, of course, the Jews have a future with God. St. Paul answers the question, Has God rejected His people saying,

.....God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture saith of Elias; how he calleth on God against Israel? 3 Lord, they have slain thy prophets, they have dug down thy altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the divine answer to him? I have left me seven thousand men, that have not bowed their knees to Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.

So notice the answer about whether the Jews are rejected concerns the hope to restore individual salvation to as many Jews as possible and NOT TO A CORPORATE NATIONAL REVIVAL EITHER THEN OR SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.

Read it again..the answer shows that the salvation of Israel will be just as it was in the OT. Out of a nation of millions, God tells Elias there were only 7,000 who had remained faithful. So, it's no surprise that v.5, even in this present time, there is a "remnant" of Jewish people that is far smaller than the majority.

Almighty God is fulfilling all the OT prophecies about Israel's salvation here and now  as Jews from every nation to which they have been scattered are being gathered into one Body of Christ. The one Body into which the Jews from all nations are being gathered is the Church the Messianic kingdom of God present here and now, the Church age.

Salvation is from the Jews through Christ. All Jews should take what  St. Peter said to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost to heart. Acts 3:19-26,

19 Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. 20 That when the times of refreshment shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send him who hath been preached unto you, Jesus Christ,

21 Whom heaven indeed must receive, until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, from the beginning of the world. 22 For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: Him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever He shall speak to you. 23 And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these days. 25 You are the children of the prophets, and of the testament which God made to our fathers, saying to Abraham: And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 To you first God, raising up his Son, hath sent him to bless you; that every one may convert himself from his wickedness.

 Verse 23 is very sobering.

Lula, feel free to support G-d's people in any way you want.

But somehow I feel that you intend to start by demonizing their state and everything that given them hope.

We have already seen what happens to G-d's people without the "corporate" national revival.

leauki posts:

KFC posts:

Yes, another best answer.  

leauki posts:

There are many evidences of the claim of Jesus that His is the Messias. Some of those are the OT prophecies. Have you ever seriously read them? (I'll get back to those later.) Also in the story of the preexistence of Jesus before Abraham who died a thousand years before the following question was put to Jesus by the Jews. "Thou are not yet fifty years old and hast thou seen Abraham? the answer of Jesus was, "....before Abraham came to be, I am." for which he was stoned.

The "I AM" as you must know, is God's designation of Himself to Moses. Exodus 3:14.

The story of the trial of Jesus on the charge of blashphemy is sufficient for calling Him the Messias. In answer to the question of High Priest Caiaphas, "I adjure thee in the name of the living God that you tell me whether you are the Messias (not a Messias), Son of God" to which Jesus positively answered, "I am." The reply of the High Priest was the death sentence which the Jews had a Mosaic right to impose upon a blashphemer which ended with the crucifixion of the greatest Jew to walk the sacred soil of Palestine, viz. "We have a law, and by our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God".

You and others are looking forward for the coming of the OT predicted Messias. So it follows then you must believe that He will be born of the House of David that existed in the tribe of Juda. Surely that is a vain expectancy as there is no existing House of David or tribe of Juda from which anyone can come forth. Vol V, page 597 of the Jewish Encyclopedia states that the division of Israel into "houses" and their authenticated genealogies which were scrupously kept have been lost and page 577 states 'very few Jews can trace their descent furhter back than a couple hundred years."

Right reasoning compels the conclusion that the non-existence of the House of David and tribe of Juda in which the Messias was predicted to be born evidences that God's promise of the coming Messias has been fulfilled.

The Messias came in the manner Isaias said He would be miraculously born. 7:14.

The Messias was born in the time Daniel foretold nearly five centuries befor e the Lily of Israel brought Him forth in the city of David. 9:6.

The Messias was born during the predicted time when the "sceptre" that is, the authority, the political power shall have been taken away from Israel as it was by ancient Rome. Gen. 49:10.

The Messias was to be betrayed and sold for 30 peices of silver; led like a sheep to a slaughter; suffer His hands and feet to be pierced; and thereafter to rise from the dead as foretold in Zacharais 11:12-13; Is. 53:7; Ps. 21: and Is. 11:10.

So, what this means to me is that any one who claims to be the Messias will be a false messias and no one should follow  him.  

KFC posts 196

First it should be noted that this parable completes the previous parable of the 2 sons which identifies the indocility of Israel. This one of the wicked caretakers (tenants) focuses on the punishment to come.

 I agree with your explanation of Jesus' parable but always understood that  the vineyard is Israel and the caretakers to whom God has given the care of His people are the priests, scribes and elders.

The malicious purpose of the caretakers in murdering the son and heir to keep the inheritance for themselves is the madness of the Jewish leaders in expecting to become the undisputed masters of Israel by putting Christ to death. 

Yes this is the point. It's as clear as clear can be especially when we read the last 6 verses.

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do to those husbandmen?

41 They say to him: He will bring those evil men to an evil end; and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen, that shall render him the fruit in due season. 42 Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes. 43 Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them.

46 And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes: because they held him as a prophet.

Regarding the highlighted....your conclusion here is the strange and has nothing to do with the kingdom of God being turned over to the Gentiles.

 What supports St.Matthew 21 is St.Peter who later repeats it to the Sanhedrin, "this is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner." Acts. 4:11; 1St.Peter 2:4.

The Stone is Jesus of Narareth, but the architects of Israel who build up and rule the people have chosen not to use it in the building. Becasue of their unfaithfulness, the Kingdom of God will be turned over to another people, the Gentiles who will give God the fruit He expects in His vineyard to yield. St.Matt. 3:8-10; Gal. 6:16.

For the building to be well built it needs to rest on stone. Woe to him who trips over it. as first Jews and later the enemies of Christ  and His Church will discover through bitter experience. Is. 8:14-15.

Christians of all ages should see this parable as exhorting them to build faithfully upon Christ and make sure they do not fall into sin. Catholics are filled with hope and a sense of security  becasue although the Chruch sometimes seems to be breaking up, its sound construction with Christ as its Cornerstone is assured.

Regarding the highlighted...yes of course. We know  from the time of Adamwhen sin entered the world that we humans have a fallen nature and as a result and consequence, there has not ever been a world of peace.

Christ never promised physical peace in this earthly world.

No KFC, what Isaias describes here won't be happening on earth or even in time as we know it.  The Earth will have been burnt up at the end of the world and time is ended...like a thief in the night comes "the day of the Lord" ---the universal Judgment-- then eternity spent in a new state of affairs.."...the Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem has reached its fullness. The righteous will reign with Christ glorified in body and soul in "new heavens and a new earth.

That's all quite clear in 2St.Peter 3:9-14 and note v. 14 St.Peter urges the faithful to remain in Godliness and in peace.

9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance. 10 But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens shall pass away with great violence, and the elements shall be melted with heat, and the earth and the works which are in it, shall be burnt up.

11 Seeing then that all these things are to be dissolved, what manner of people ought you to be in holy conversation and godliness? 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with the burning heat? 13 But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to his promises, in which justice dwelleth. 14 Wherefore, dearly beloved, waiting for these things, be diligent that you may be found before him unspotted and blameless in peace.

So, yes, this physical peace is in the future,  but it's not going to be on this earth.

KFC posts

Zacharias' prophecies encourage Jews of 6BC with the promise of the coming of Messias. The prophecy starts with that time and ends with the events of Christs' First Advent. His message is clear...The Messias will come and renew the faith of God's people. He will accomplish this all during Daniel's 70th week, the seven decades of covenantal transition from the Old to the New.

The kingdom of God was indeed successfully established in the First Coming of Christ. Zacharias 14:9, 11 and 16 have been fulfilled in some by the means of the Machabees and in others relating to the Messianic kingdom of Christ, the Church where as the greatest Jewish convert of them all St.Paul of Tarsus, infallibly teaches there is neither Jew, nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ."

Yes, I read them. And for a while I kept quoting them to show you what Jesus hasn't fullfilled.

But there is no point in that because you dismiss anything you don't like in the Bible as having a "spiritual" meaning.

And that is not how bronze and iron age people saw it.

leauki posts

lula posts:

leauki posts;

Maimonades comments indicated like many other Jews, he missed the true Messias. So that leaves me telling you that if someone comes and claims to be the Messias...watch out, he's a liar.

We truly miss the true Messiah.